Maybe I am questioning if I am insane or not?

Is this whole argument about encroaching on the State

about adverse possession?

Keith

Is this whole argument about encroaching on the State

None of the above. The simple explanation is, an old Indian took a break and saw that pipe while he was smoking his pipe. Being a member of the Movepipe Tribe, he did what was natural and the pipe is no longer where it was originally placed. See evidence of members of that Tribe and their Cousins, the Movepin Tribe, passing through here often.
jud

Keith,

You know I'm always glad to help you understand these issues:)

First, all property lines not fenced in wire or stone are imaginary; which makes us all insane because we think as surveyors they are real. But they are real, in a legal sense, even if we can't see them.

Second, I find my own monuments from 10 years ago off by 0.14' but I'll never admit it.

Oops.

But, when a location between private and government land is in question by any amount, the government gets the benefit of the doubt. It's the old "the King can not be wrong" axiom. In fact in NY there have been cases (which I can't cite offhand) that have said the huge and visible concrete monuments do not control. Rather, the description of the ROW controls, as established from the survey baseline (good luck finding evidence of that). But if the baseline can be established, then it and the description control, rather than monuments relied on for 80 years or whatever.

I would have held the pipe in Carl's case, but I think he has the general legal principles correct (at least that's what the weird voice in my head tells me). It's just a difference in evaluation of the evidence by mutually insane folks. Which of course results in crazy arguments.

Do not worry any longer, with all due certainty, you are insane. As to the degree of insanity that you are consumed by, that I cannot diagnose. All I know is that we all show our degree of insanity in our own unique way.

Concerning the "argument", adverse possession is not in question unless you believe 0.14ft to be a loss that cannot be explained by any reasonable means. Like maybe "acceptable error".

That is why I usually do not comment on "what if" situations. "Give the grasshopper a 45 and a bird won't eat him" conversations have no real answer. "If your grasshopper has a 45, then my bird drives a tank". Ok, now my insanity is showing, lol, as this story could grow to no end.

In areas that are familiar and that I have surveyed, the state and federal monuments are held where they exist whether they are in the correct place or not till the river of the dark underworld freezes over. When they are in the wrong place and the state or federal government sees it an advantage to reset them to the correct place, they protect the public interest and get what they want.

Mostly, the answer to your question is: The part of decision making that rests upon the shoulders of the license holder as to what and how they are willing to report what they find.

fine' , no mas

Thanks Duane, I need help!

Then, if the King is always right and one cannot encroach on the King's land; is that also Federal Public Land or just State land?

I am quite sure that I have set survey monuments on the Federal side of that imaginary line and have not been prosecuted yet? I am sure because I know for a fact that my accuracy was not as close as Kent's first order surveying.

So who is this King?

Keith

Say what?

When they are in the wrong place and the state or federal government sees it an advantage to reset them to the correct place, they protect the public interest and get what they want.

Now I have been around a while and I am not aware of any circumstance where the Federal Government would reset monuments to the correct place?

Are you just funnin me or what?

Keith

"insanity" doing something over anover again but expecting different results.

As in most of the posts on this topic! I have not seen 1 person change their opinion based on what another has espoused.

We are all insane for coming back to this site over and over again.

I do love it though, I get more laughs here than that "other place" and laughter is very good medicine:-D

Let the insanity continue!

Joe

Is this whole argument about encroaching on the State

Are you really so blinded by your bureaucratic centric ideology?

>... imaginary ROW line...
>
> Keith

The ROW line - in fact - does exist. It is invisible; but, nevertheless, real. And either a monument is at the intersection of the subdivision line and the ROW line, or it is not.

Wait a minute... let me guess - you need a citation for that?

AS3

At least somebody likes it!

You could spend more time on the "straddling the tripod" if you don't like survey discussions!

Keith

Thanks Duane, I need help!

Keith,

This "King" is my imaginary friend. He tells me where the true line really is.

I'm beginning to think you're one of the sane folks who can't hear my imaginary friend:)

Duane

A. Harris

Your statement, Mostly, the answer to your question is: The part of decision making that rests upon the shoulders of the license holder as to what and how they are willing to report what they find. is correct, I guess, but maybe those decisions should be based on some sort of guideline....other than that's the way it is done around here?

Suppose.

Or we could just have threads about tripod legs and dogs and such?

Keith

Duane

Tell me when you see this King out there and direct me to a court case that concerns itself with distances like 0.14 feet.

And I just can't come to grips with the thought that many on here have their opinions on senior-junior corners from the 1888 court case?

But.........I have learned something very valuable with all this discussion and that is:

The PLSS is just one big senior survey and thereby all monuments set on it are acceptable in place!

So says the best instrument man in the business.

Keith

Adam

And by GOD if it ain't exact by micrometer standards, it is just not acceptable.

Keith

Duane

> And I just can't come to grips with the thought that many on here have their opinions on senior-junior corners from the 1888 court case?

Better stay away from Maryland.

In a 2007 decision the Court of Appeals (our highest court, we don't have a Supreme Court) was restating the long-held principle that the intention of the grantors must always prevail in deed interpretation and the Justices cited Henry Smith Hawkins v.John Hanson (1 H. & McH. 523; 1774 Md.) a decision by the Provincial Court two years prior to the Declaration of Independence.

Mr. Williams

> Your statement, Mostly, the answer to your question is: The part of decision making that rests upon the shoulders of the license holder as to what and how they are willing to report what they find. is correct, I guess, but maybe those decisions should be based on some sort of guideline....other than that's the way it is done around here?
>

In Virginia, intent trumps monuments. The senior line was marked on the ground. The surveyor that set the pipe intended the pipe to be on the senior line. Carl found all the monuments and made the proper decision based on what he shot. What else is he supposed to rely on? He didn't have to set the new pin, but that was his call. I am sure he will show what he did on his plat.

He also acted in the best interest of his client. He has helped his client avoid a potential conflict with the Commonwealth.

James

Did it cite the Clement case?

. . .the long-held principle that the intention of the grantors must always prevail in deed interpretation . . . No problem with that!

Keith

Asininely Pedantic Surveyors do not build towns.

Real people with backhoes, and bills do!

N

James

Did it cite the Clement case?