Man and the colonization of the Moon: Surveyor's Needed

Why worry just send up a few satellites to the moon and repeat what we do here with GPS.

BTW the moon is already mapped....

RADU

O.k. let me rephrase, w/o the use of sattelite's, how would you Phisicaly map the moon. Divide the land between other nation's, set corner's. Let's assume Russia is also staking claim...lines have to be drawn.

The efforts would be meaningless because the government would want to save money and have us set rocks or pits & mounds for monuments.

Like everything done by mankind, it would be screwed up just enough that it is still workable but not quite right, and not done until after it already needed to be finished.

Personally, I'm pessimistic about us ever doing anything more than a few exploratory visits off Terra before we go the way of the dinosaurs (or at best back to a post-energy dark ages), so don't foresee townships and sections on Luna or Mars. If we do it, though, let's make it metric.

While computation of a solar ephemeris for use on the moon would be an unfamiliar problem, once you had it you could get very good positions with it. Since the cycle is approximately a month instead of a day you would not have any problem with making careful time readings to go with your solar shots, and no refraction correction.

As RADU said, there is already a coordinate system established, although I don't know how accurately it is tied to any physical point. You would probably pick a couple points, get as close as you can (meters?) to what the astronomers are now using, and establish a monument to tie it down to the mm level.

Your reference points might be the Lunar Retro Reflector points that have been used to measure the earth-moon distance and track wobbles. They probably don't define horizontal positions very accurately, though.

I own a piece of that action. Who wants to survey my lot? Anyone have a PLS (Professional Lunar Surveyor) license?

Hmm. They have some sort of system of breakdown of the area into quadrants and lots. But they are working in acres instead of metric, sigh. Where is their plat, and how do you record a Lunar deed - only at the Lunar Embassy?

They really should have named it the Harriman Foundation, though (for Heinlein fans).

It doesn't say whether the lots are monumented. The plat probably says they were but the BLR (Board of Lunar Registration) will be after them for failure to monument within 60 days.

Here is their basis for ownership. I guess they couldn't go there to take title from the Native Lunarians by treaty or right of conquest?

"A declaration of ownership was filed with the United Nations
as well as the US and Russian governments 27 years ago by
Mr. Dennis M. Hope of the Lunar Embassy, to ensure that a
legal basis for the ownership of the properties sold here
can be claimed. On that wonderful day in 1980, the Lunar
Embassy was born."

But they have a title dispute with someone using the names Lunar Republic, Lunar Registry, and Lunar International. This may have to be settled by adverse possession.

I doubt that it's worth the paper it's printed on.

Though when the times comes for extraterrestrial colonization, I am sure they would want to be using a coordinated cadastre, built on their ETRF model (as opposed to ITRF)

Agreed, it is my understanding that a form of "land dispute" is already forming between nation's as to the moon's surface. Apparently the lack of weather, ensure's that the origial footprint's made by Neal Armstrong remain intact. Also the lander used still remain's. The U.S. government claim's this site for historical importance, and declare's future moonlanding's be in a different quandrant to preserve this site. Some countrie's are calling foul. Does our flag standing on great Luna entitle this...In a way I think not.

> I doubt that it's worth the paper it's printed on.
>
> Though when the times comes for extraterrestrial colonization, I am sure they would want to be using a coordinated cadastre, built on their ETRF model (as opposed to ITRF)

Any idea's on vertical?

Since the moon revolves around earth, it would appear that the earth would be used as a reference by shooting say the trailing edge or leading edge.

Not likely, the geosynch would vary greatly from body to body, due to axis, and path. It would be very difficult to reference...

i think the moon's geoid / ellipsoid (spheroid?) surface would not have the separation issues we have to deal with at least

Actually, the surface of the moon bobbles around quite a bit due to the strong tidal pull of the earth, with moonquakes being rather frequent... One would have to delve deep into lunar tectonics to get a better handle on precision and datums.
😉

> I own a piece of that action. Who wants to survey my lot? Anyone have a PLS (Professional Lunar Surveyor) license?

Wendell, you probably aren't aware that all lunar land titles are allodial. Once the surface of the Moon has been conveyed to private hands, the responsibility for establishing boundaries rests with the astronauts in possession. A surveyor can merely assist the astronauts in recording the boundaries they have established.

Naturally, an affidavit would be a smart idea. Contact Richard Schaut for the details of which "Miscellaneous Records" to record the affidavit in, i.e. terrestrial or otherwise.

Oh, and don't forget to make all straight lines curved, too. Use a Lunar Compass.

Thanks so much for looking after all these details!

I heard that Neil & Buzz already set a pin but it has been determined to be off by .04' 😉

CV

If not the lunar Surveyor

Then whom?