What if you are a High-Baller?
> yes go and buy your leica and trimble for your work. while you need 10 work to recoup your investments, us topcon users will recoup our investment in half the number of projects. so what if it does not last long? it gives me the opportunity to upgrade or try other brands while you are stuck with your premium brand.
Fine by me, if works for you that's okay. I don't want to blow my own horn but I have all three workflows in my arsenal. Trimble, Leica and Topcon. We are applying these instruments and their respective softwares to some complex projects. I think I speak from a position of field testing and experience. What I can say about these three is that they spend a good deal of money on research and development in order to stay ahead of the curve and fulfill the needs of Surveyors worldwide. It doesn't take much to take some one else's intellectual property, copycat it, leave out the parts you don't understand or are too expensive to incorporate and put it out on the market at half the price. In a country where there are no labor laws,copy write laws and environmental constraints anything is possible.
I'm wondering where you're getting your information from?
What if you are a High-Baller?
Where am I getting my information?
From my own experience. The company I used to work for, had several Leica Total Stations. It had all the bells & whistles. The onboard software had everything you need. You could even do onboard conversion for different datum. Well guess what, we only needed to collect topo data, corner layout and the usual intersection/resection. Road alignment computation? No. Trigonometric Levelling? No. 100+ Description Codes? No, we just need maybe 20 at most. Temperature & Presure Sensors? No. Prism locator sensor? No. 5 km distance range? No, we use GPS for that distance. Leitz optics? You get clear image & proper alignment from a Topcon glass.
But all these added features goes into the final price for a Leica unit. We ended up using less than 50% of the features but paid for all of them. At nearly 2x the cost of a Topcon unit, if it falls it breaks the same as a Topcon unit.
As a businessman, you can buy all the BMW or Ferrari that you can afford but if you want to maximize profit then get a Toyota or Nissan.
What if you are a High-Baller?
> Where am I getting my information?
> From my own experience. The company I used to work for, had several Leica Total Stations. It had all the bells & whistles. The onboard software had everything you need. You could even do onboard conversion for different datum. Well guess what, we only needed to collect topo data, corner layout and the usual intersection/resection. Road alignment computation? No. Trigonometric Levelling? No. 100+ Description Codes? No, we just need maybe 20 at most. Temperature & Presure Sensors? No. Prism locator sensor? No. 5 km distance range? No, we use GPS for that distance. Leitz optics? You get clear image & proper alignment from a Topcon glass.
>
> But all these added features goes into the final price for a Leica unit. We ended up using less than 50% of the features but paid for all of them. At nearly 2x the cost of a Topcon unit, if it falls it breaks the same as a Topcon unit.
>
> As a businessman, you can buy all the BMW or Ferrari that you can afford but if you want to maximize profit then get a Toyota or Nissan.
For what you described up there, you don't even need a total station.
Your Original premise was based on South, FOIF etc., now you're saying Topcon. I have no problem with Topcon Instruments and I believe that with the purchase of Sokkia they can only improve their instrumentation capabilities.
BTW, Trimble uses Zeiss optics not Lietz, the instruments you're promoting, namely Topcon bought out Sokkia just recently. In the 1990's Sokkia bought out a company called Leitz, which is what I believe you are referring to. So if you are using a modern Topcon Total Station it is probably using Lietz glass.
What if you are a High-Baller?
"...At nearly 2x the cost of a Topcon unit, if it falls it breaks the same as a Topcon unit.."
I wouldn't trust that the remaining features that you actually use are as good as those same features on a higher end unit. Nor, would I trust that I can predict when you will start getting crap data from a cheaper unit. It will happen. You don't get to chose when.
What if you are a High-Baller?
> "...At nearly 2x the cost of a Topcon unit, if it falls it breaks the same as a Topcon unit.."
>
> I wouldn't trust that the remaining features that you actually use are as good as those same features on a higher end unit. Nor, would I trust that I can predict when you will start getting crap data from a cheaper unit. It will happen. You don't get to chose when.
:good: :good:
What if you are a High-Baller?
> BTW, Trimble uses Zeiss optics not Lietz, the instruments you're promoting, namely Topcon bought out Sokkia just recently. In the 1990's Sokkia bought out a company called Leitz, which is what I believe you are referring to. So if you are using a modern Topcon Total Station it is probably using Lietz glass.
Leitz is the original name of Leica. It was named after its founder Ernst Leitz. I don't think Sokkia was able to buy the Leica brand.
What if you are a High-Baller?
>
> Leitz is the original name of Leica. It was named after its founder Ernst Leitz. I don't think Sokkia was able to buy the Leica brand.
You are correct I was thinking about this:
A. LIETZ CO. HISTORY
by Francois "Bud" Uzes
Adolph Lietz was born in Leubeck, Germany in 1860. He immigrated to San Francisco in 1879 and worked in several scientific instrument shops before opening his own business. Lietz purchased the business of Carl Rahsskopff in 1880 and began his own business in 1882. Lietz originally joint ventured with another maker, Gottlieb A. Mauerhan, to form "Lietz and Mauerhan," a relationship that lasted for about a year. Following Mauerhan's departure, Lietz paired up with Conrad J. Weinmann who had previously worked for Carl Rahsskopff. The company was renamed "A. Lietz & Co." and at that time produced surveying instruments and related tools. The firm incorporated in 1892 under the name "The A. Lietz Company" and Weinmann possibly left at about that time. In 1910 a complete line of drafting materials and engineering equipment was added. In 1947, after 65 years of production, the firm discontinued the manufacturing of surveying instruments. The reason given was that it would be necessary and very costly to retool in order to manufacture the types of modern instruments then being marketed. Their business changed to being an importer and distributor. In 1960 the company started handling the Umeco brand of surveying instruments and then added instruments from Japan made by Sokkisha. The Frank Paxton Company purchased the business in 1965 and moved its headquarters to Kansas City, Missouri. The company name was also changed to "The Lietz Company." Additional restructuring took place during the early 1990's and the firm name was again changed, this time to "Sokkia."
What if you are a High-Baller?
And I though Sokkia was a Japanese company!:-S
What if you are a High-Baller?
> And I though Sokkia was a Japanese company!:-S
Yeah, now as I recall back to the 80's this caused a lot of confusion. Wild Lietz and Sokkisha (lietz).
What if you are a High-Baller?
> > BTW, Trimble uses Zeiss optics not Lietz, the instruments you're promoting, namely Topcon bought out Sokkia just recently. In the 1990's Sokkia bought out a company called Leitz, which is what I believe you are referring to. So if you are using a modern Topcon Total Station it is probably using Lietz glass.
>
> Leitz is the original name of Leica. It was named after its founder Ernst Leitz. I don't think Sokkia was able to buy the Leica brand.
Leica was never Leitz. Leica was Wild and Kern.
B-)
Just like there is no I in team, there is no price in professional!
This is a 180° from Randy, but I'll guarandamnedtee you that Randy Hambright, a solo operator can do a job in his neck of the woods for ±½ of what I would have to charge to send my 2 man crew in their newer 3/4 ton truck 300 miles to a place they'd never been to do a lot survey! "BUT" we are from a small town and our firm has been here for >40 years, so I'll bet we can do a lot here a heckuva lot cheaper than someone else from ±200 miles away can, and all 4 can be for time and expense, simple math there.
Seems like way to many people on here confuse professional with price or get holier than thou with their pricing. Hey, if Joe Bob can survey a lot and do a good/professional job for $200 and not go broke, God bless him and let him go, if his work is inferior, turn him in, or he'll go broke and be gone anyway.
> Just like there is no I in team, there is no price in professional!
> This is a 180° from Randy, but I'll guarandamnedtee you that Randy Hambright, a solo operator can do a job in his neck of the woods for ±½ of what I would have to charge to send my 2 man crew in their newer 3/4 ton truck 300 miles to a place they'd never been to do a lot survey! "BUT" we are from a small town and our firm has been here for >40 years, so I'll bet we can do a lot here a heckuva lot cheaper than someone else from ±200 miles away can, and all 4 can be for time and expense, simple math there.
> Seems like way to many people on here confuse professional with price or get holier than thou with their pricing. Hey, if Joe Bob can survey a lot and do a good/professional job for $200 and not go broke, God bless him and let him go, if his work is inferior, turn him in, or he'll go broke and be gone anyway.
Did you read the Original Post?
It's 180 degrees from where you're coming from.
The guy is coming from 300 miles away into his backyard and cutting Randy's price in half or more?
That's EXACTLY what I said, you re-wrote my whole post, so surely you read it, maybe twice, I said I'm talking 180° from Randy's post.
Why do people completely "re-post" and entire post, directly under the original post they are reposting? There are little arrows that show who is replying to what...
> That's EXACTLY what I said, you re-wrote my whole post, so surely you read it, maybe twice, I said I'm talking 180° from Randy's post.
>
> Why do people completely "re-post" and entire post, directly under the original post they are reposting? There are little arrows that show who is replying to what...
Whatever........
