Leica Robot with Trimble Collector Configuration

You're not exactly doing a fair comparison if you are using some Frankenstein setup.

That said. I don't think they like to play nicely together from reading this same thread a few times in the past. Trimble's data collection is superior, Leica's hardware is superior. At least that's how I see it. I haven't used any of the new Viva stuff, though.

Hmmm, both pieces of equipment are highly proprietary, could be a tough nut to crack.

I would get in touch with a good instrument repair shop and ask them how to do it or if it can be done.

You may have a hard time getting a productive set-up by mixing parts, both companies being competitors. Your best bet if you want to work with one brand of equipment, go 100% with that brand. I work with both and like both, but mixing them, no thank you.

- - -

Reluctance - Acceptance - Performance

🙁 😐 🙂

The 3 stages a user go through when faced with new technology.

:beer:

hopefully you are using Leica prisms.

If not, for a minus 30 prism add 4.4mm to the distances (sounds crazy but it's true).

I used to run a TCA1102 with a TSC1 (non-robotic) but that was an unhappy marriage at best and that was not robotic.

Let me give you some background info so this doesn't turn into a Leica/Trimble debate.

I recently switched companies. My new company is currently using all Leica equipment now with the exception of our robot controllers. For our robots we are using an Allegro controller with Carlson CE. Everything works fine.

The problem is that no-one in the company seems happy with our current equipment. The equipment choice was made a years ago by one individual who is no longer with the company. The issues seem to be with the software (both office and field software) and not the instruments themselves. Myself and the rest of the company would like to make the switch to Trimble.

Since the collectors are really the brains of the operation I would like to start there. I am only doing some testing right now to see if it is even possible to pair the two units. Getting our GPS units to work has not been an issue. It is the robotics and more specifically the radio connection that seems to be the issue. I am able to get everything working properly when connected by a cable (ie. tracking, searching, direct reflex, data collection).

Obviously this is being driven by cost. The plan would be to gradually (over the next 2 years or so) phase out and replace all of our Leica with Trimble.

I am beginning to realize that this may not be possible unless I can get the collector to run our robot. I agree with you all that the two companies do not play nice with each other!

That sounds like if England decided to switch from left hand to right hand driving but they switch the trucks and buses over first.

> Reluctance - Acceptance - Performance

:good:

So true.

I get so sick of people and their brand x is vastly superior in every way when it is their first encounter with new/different technology whether it be hardware or software.

I would recommend switching the SurvCE component with Leica collectors. SurvCE is a very capable program, but you will never get as good results as going completely proprietary across the board.

Example:

Leica 1200,1200+,TS30.../Field Controller, Viva > Leica Geo Office

Trimble S6/TSC2 > Trimble Business center

That said, the learning curve for the Leica data collection is steeper, but only because it is more powerful. Too many people make the investment in "cutting edge technology" and don't invest in real training. And on that note: Trimble salespeople (the ones I've met) are as bad as car salesmen about just telling you something to make a sale. Leica salesmen are usually much more knowledgeable about product limitations, implementation, etc.

:good:

My buddy was able to jimmy-rig some setup that got the 1103 to communicate with a recon
(run it fully robitic) but you dam near need a degree in electrical engineering.
I don't think the trimble and leica will interact.
I know from experience that Survce and Microsurvey will work fine with the leicas.

Ralph

Why would you want to change from survce, We use it and switch all the time between Topcon Robot, Leica 1200GPS and an old Trimble4700 with a 4000 base. We use a TSC1 to start the 4000 but survce runs everything else.

Regarding SurvCE and GPS raw data: What type of file format does it produce? What software do you use to process? As it stands now my company did not purchase the GPS module or code for SurvCE. I have not been able to look into this option yet but I plan on it.

I didn't know if it would work or not, but I can just about guarantee that once someone did finally get it to work their conclusion would be this sucks.

After you get the GPS module when you are doing RTK work the DC will produce the same *.raw and *.crd files but will include all the GPS data. We use the standalone Carlson Survey with embedded acad to process the files but you could also use the free Carlson Export program and export a fieldbook file or a acsii point file.

If you where asking about static data we still use our old 4000 to collect static data. We send the file to OPUS to process a single point solution or for a network solution we use Trimble Office.

You seem to be pretty pro Leica. Could you please enlighten me with some of the benefits and options that I am missing? In both the field equipment and Leica Geo Office. What benefits does it offer over Trimble, Topcon, and Carlson?

Thanks Robert. Sounds like that may be a good route to go.

Having the networked RTK and Robot on the same DC is about a big a plus in data collection that I can think of. We crank up the Leica set a couple of control points in to state plane coordinates, do what we can with GPS then switch the DC to the robot with the same job file and just setup and backsite the points we stored from the Leica.

I haven't done many jobs in the last 10 years that weren't in SPC, which means I can reference any previously found points or topo shots to my current projects. That is a big plus when most of your projects are in the same county and you start building a database of the location of original survey lines, subdvisions, etc.

I thought I probably came off that way. I have extensive experience with the Leica/SurvCE setup as well as the Trimble S6/TSC2 setup. The Trimble setup in this configuration is superior for just about all survey work.

But as I have indicated, this is an apples/oranges comparison. Where Trimble excels is in the easy learning curve for it's data collection software coupled with the seamless communication between DC and robot.

Almost all Leica hardware is more accurate than it's Trimble counterparts (when proper techniques are used, and in applicable environs) thus it has more applications. You can get a "High Precision" S6 that helps a little with this disparity, but not by a lot. For example almost all S6's are accurate to 0.01' = 3mm (1 sigma); the new Leica TS30 is accurate to 0.6mm - that's a huge difference. I know that this is ridiculous to mention to most surveyors, but these capabilities can open new markets.

Furthermore, under normal circumstances the Leica ATR is superior. Try asking either brands dealer how accurate the ATR is, they will weasel out of answering every time because the true answer is "it depends". You may be purchasing a 3" instrument but field techniques and sighting distance play an enormous factor in the resultant accuracy. When higher accuracies are required manual sighting is preferred.

Leica hardware seems to be more "rugged" as well and seems to stay in adjustment/ca;ibration better. The optical plummet on the S6 is easy to bang into the side of the box when putting it in. Also, I just prefer a laser plummet.

Leica data collection is more clumsily laid out, is buggier, and is more powerful. Trimble data collection is more seamless, more thoughtfully laid out, and is less powerful. The Leica data collection would usually require training to be purchased. I would wager most people can figure out Trimble.

For most people/applications I would highly recommend Trimble, but for myself I would buy Leica every time. Weird, huh?

What I was implying to you, though, is that you have great equipment. Don't lose the possible benefits of a great investment by ditching it on a whim.

I haven't used the newer Leica software, but I know that they "dumbed it down" some. We didn't own the Leica data collection software, but I know quite a bit about it from grilling a knowledgeable salesperson for a few hours. We were contemplating switching from the Allegro/SurvCE setup to the Leica data collection.

This sounds like a similar dilemma many of us have.

I run a small firm, with many different brands of equipment. I wish there was a data collector and software that would seamlessly run everything. I'm in the market for a robot, and will probably be pushed into another Trimble S6. All things being equal, I'd like an S6 and a new Leica TS...it seems the way the companies are becoming more proprietary, this is impossible.
SurvCE (my favorite field software), runs the new Javads, and the Sokkia SRX, but won't run the Trimble S6. It seems like the manufacturers try to force us into buying all their equipment (data collector, GPS, total station)...bummer I know. Transferring points between collectors in the field with a USB drive is a PITA.

Trimble has the best RTN around here, so we went with them.

I feel your pain though.
If you figure out a solution to this problem please let me know.