AI Assistant
Notifications
Clear all

Legal Issues on Commercial Property

12 Posts
6 Users
0 Reactions
863 Views
DDubya
(@ddubya)
Posts: 27
Member
Topic starter
Translate
English
Spanish
French
German
Italian
Portuguese
Russian
Chinese
Japanese
Korean
Arabic
Hindi
Dutch
Polish
Turkish
Vietnamese
Thai
Swedish
Danish
Finnish
Norwegian
Czech
Hungarian
Romanian
Greek
Hebrew
Indonesian
Malay
Ukrainian
Bulgarian
Croatian
Slovak
Slovenian
Serbian
Lithuanian
Latvian
Estonian
 

I, a lowly unlicensed construction surveyor, was tasked in the layout of a parking lot in a big city retail/residential area. I found concrete monuments from the original survey but most of the work involved tying in to existing curb and I felt comfortable working within those clearly defined limits.

However, as the second phase began, we were to place 30ƒ? curb along an old side street (which had no curb), and that got me nervous because I could not find several other boundary markers on the survey. So I set up on one monument and backsighted the other (only twenty feet away) and found an iron pin (200ƒ??). Occupied the iron pin and turned from the monument to find the punch in the residential neighborƒ??s concrete driveway as described in the survey.

Satisfied, I laid out the curb, however, not only did an incompetent contractor screw it up (decided to jog around a puny utility pole which should have been moved) but he badly disturbed the iron pin. Grrrrƒ??

Nowƒ??the long knives come out. The county/city Authorities Having Jurisdiction trashed it, and rightly so. It was garbage. The 30ƒ? curb reduced o 18ƒ? and back to 30, and kinda wandered along. BTW, I layout and move on. I donƒ??t direct contractors.

So now, tasked with re-layout, having lost my iron pin, you couldnƒ??t drive a six penny nail up my ass with a sledge hammer, so I resect from one of the monuments and the driveway punch and traverse to a bent rebar described in the survey, which I had been avoiding because it was a wino hangout. I landed on the base of the bent pin which satisfied me. Thus, I took shots on the sidewalk curb across the street and was matching it perfectly. More satisfaction.

Oh, that punch in the residentƒ??s driveway? That was a property corner. The pre-construction survey included that fact in the narrative describing their work. The AHJƒ??s knew it. The owner of the commercial property for whom we were working knew it. But now, we (the GC) canƒ??t get a Certificate of Occupancy because that driveway is part of a plantings buffer. I let my people know when I laid it out months ago but they sat on it.

Long story short, except for too late, I have a question.

How the hell does the FACT that a neighborƒ??s property encroaches a commercial property by thousands of square feet, which includes a neighborƒ??s only access to their house, get ignored? How were the plans approved without prior resolution?

Amazing!


 
Posted : October 26, 2021 12:31 am
lurker
(@lurker)
Posts: 1132
Member
Translate
English
Spanish
French
German
Italian
Portuguese
Russian
Chinese
Japanese
Korean
Arabic
Hindi
Dutch
Polish
Turkish
Vietnamese
Thai
Swedish
Danish
Finnish
Norwegian
Czech
Hungarian
Romanian
Greek
Hebrew
Indonesian
Malay
Ukrainian
Bulgarian
Croatian
Slovak
Slovenian
Serbian
Lithuanian
Latvian
Estonian
 

The general contractor, the commercial property owner, and the civil design firm all tried to take the cheap route and none of them hired a surveyor before doing their part of the project. Thus resulting in a problem being discovered too late.


 
Posted : October 26, 2021 7:28 am
Norman_Oklahoma
(@norman-oklahoma)
Posts: 8310
Member
Translate
English
Spanish
French
German
Italian
Portuguese
Russian
Chinese
Japanese
Korean
Arabic
Hindi
Dutch
Polish
Turkish
Vietnamese
Thai
Swedish
Danish
Finnish
Norwegian
Czech
Hungarian
Romanian
Greek
Hebrew
Indonesian
Malay
Ukrainian
Bulgarian
Croatian
Slovak
Slovenian
Serbian
Lithuanian
Latvian
Estonian
 

In my area a non-licensed person can do on-site layout work, but city and county engineering manuals all require that a PLS do layout in the public right of way.?ÿ?ÿ


 
Posted : October 26, 2021 10:37 am
DDubya
(@ddubya)
Posts: 27
Member
Topic starter
Translate
English
Spanish
French
German
Italian
Portuguese
Russian
Chinese
Japanese
Korean
Arabic
Hindi
Dutch
Polish
Turkish
Vietnamese
Thai
Swedish
Danish
Finnish
Norwegian
Czech
Hungarian
Romanian
Greek
Hebrew
Indonesian
Malay
Ukrainian
Bulgarian
Croatian
Slovak
Slovenian
Serbian
Lithuanian
Latvian
Estonian
 

The pre-construction survey was performed by a reputable firm who pointed out the neighborƒ??s encroachment in their narrative.

How were the plans approved with this knowledge?


 
Posted : October 27, 2021 12:08 am
DDubya
(@ddubya)
Posts: 27
Member
Topic starter
Translate
English
Spanish
French
German
Italian
Portuguese
Russian
Chinese
Japanese
Korean
Arabic
Hindi
Dutch
Polish
Turkish
Vietnamese
Thai
Swedish
Danish
Finnish
Norwegian
Czech
Hungarian
Romanian
Greek
Hebrew
Indonesian
Malay
Ukrainian
Bulgarian
Croatian
Slovak
Slovenian
Serbian
Lithuanian
Latvian
Estonian
 

A PLS could do no better, other than representation in court, but the monuments are still there, as well as the punch and bent pin, and I can repeat my work from any of those points.

But what struck me was how, with a professional, pre-construction survey indicating encroachment by a neighborƒ??s improvements in a designed vegetation buffer, were the plans approved?

Baffling.


 
Posted : October 27, 2021 12:34 am

rover83
(@rover83)
Posts: 2342
Member
Translate
English
Spanish
French
German
Italian
Portuguese
Russian
Chinese
Japanese
Korean
Arabic
Hindi
Dutch
Polish
Turkish
Vietnamese
Thai
Swedish
Danish
Finnish
Norwegian
Czech
Hungarian
Romanian
Greek
Hebrew
Indonesian
Malay
Ukrainian
Bulgarian
Croatian
Slovak
Slovenian
Serbian
Lithuanian
Latvian
Estonian
 
Posted by: @ddubya

But what struck me was how, with a professional, pre-construction survey indicating encroachment by a neighborƒ??s improvements in a designed vegetation buffer, were the plans approved?

Forget the plans. What sort of landowner is OK with encroachments and a likely cloud on their title, and doesn't try to clear that up before even entertaining the idea of development or redevelopment?


 
Posted : October 27, 2021 9:37 am
holy-cow
(@holy-cow)
Posts: 25672
Member
Translate
English
Spanish
French
German
Italian
Portuguese
Russian
Chinese
Japanese
Korean
Arabic
Hindi
Dutch
Polish
Turkish
Vietnamese
Thai
Swedish
Danish
Finnish
Norwegian
Czech
Hungarian
Romanian
Greek
Hebrew
Indonesian
Malay
Ukrainian
Bulgarian
Croatian
Slovak
Slovenian
Serbian
Lithuanian
Latvian
Estonian
 

Push forward.?ÿ We can beg (pay) for forgiveness later.


 
Posted : October 27, 2021 9:41 am
dmyhill
(@dmyhill)
Posts: 3080
Member
Translate
English
Spanish
French
German
Italian
Portuguese
Russian
Chinese
Japanese
Korean
Arabic
Hindi
Dutch
Polish
Turkish
Vietnamese
Thai
Swedish
Danish
Finnish
Norwegian
Czech
Hungarian
Romanian
Greek
Hebrew
Indonesian
Malay
Ukrainian
Bulgarian
Croatian
Slovak
Slovenian
Serbian
Lithuanian
Latvian
Estonian
 
Posted by: @lurker

The general contractor, the commercial property owner, and the civil design firm all tried to take the cheap route and none of them hired a surveyor before doing their part of the project. Thus resulting in a problem being discovered too late.

It sounds like it was discovered, and commented, just never resolved.


 
Posted : October 27, 2021 9:47 am
dmyhill
(@dmyhill)
Posts: 3080
Member
Translate
English
Spanish
French
German
Italian
Portuguese
Russian
Chinese
Japanese
Korean
Arabic
Hindi
Dutch
Polish
Turkish
Vietnamese
Thai
Swedish
Danish
Finnish
Norwegian
Czech
Hungarian
Romanian
Greek
Hebrew
Indonesian
Malay
Ukrainian
Bulgarian
Croatian
Slovak
Slovenian
Serbian
Lithuanian
Latvian
Estonian
 
Posted by: @ddubya

A PLS could do no better, other than representation in court, but the monuments are still there, as well as the punch and bent pin, and I can repeat my work from any of those points.

But what struck me was how, with a professional, pre-construction survey indicating encroachment by a neighborƒ??s improvements in a designed vegetation buffer, were the plans approved?

Baffling.

Are the improvements in?

Do you think they will make them remove them?

If the end result is that they do not have to remove improvements or change their design, then they probably made the right call. Essentially, the system will have manipulated the code. The end result is the true judge on whether or not they succeeded.?ÿ


 
Posted : October 27, 2021 9:57 am
Norman_Oklahoma
(@norman-oklahoma)
Posts: 8310
Member
Translate
English
Spanish
French
German
Italian
Portuguese
Russian
Chinese
Japanese
Korean
Arabic
Hindi
Dutch
Polish
Turkish
Vietnamese
Thai
Swedish
Danish
Finnish
Norwegian
Czech
Hungarian
Romanian
Greek
Hebrew
Indonesian
Malay
Ukrainian
Bulgarian
Croatian
Slovak
Slovenian
Serbian
Lithuanian
Latvian
Estonian
 
Posted by: @ddubya

How the hell does the FACT that a neighborƒ??s property encroaches a commercial property by thousands of square feet, which includes a neighborƒ??s only access to their house, get ignored? How were the plans approved without prior resolution?

Just putting a note on a existing conditions map really doesn't get it done. People are way to focused on a million other things. Once permits are on hand and construction is underway just saying something isn't going to get it done.?ÿ People are way to focused on a million other things. Once the inspector refuses to sign off on an occupancy permit things will get done. It is the way of the construction world.


 
Posted : October 27, 2021 10:31 am

DDubya
(@ddubya)
Posts: 27
Member
Topic starter
Translate
English
Spanish
French
German
Italian
Portuguese
Russian
Chinese
Japanese
Korean
Arabic
Hindi
Dutch
Polish
Turkish
Vietnamese
Thai
Swedish
Danish
Finnish
Norwegian
Czech
Hungarian
Romanian
Greek
Hebrew
Indonesian
Malay
Ukrainian
Bulgarian
Croatian
Slovak
Slovenian
Serbian
Lithuanian
Latvian
Estonian
 

I like the PLS argument, even though it may hurt my feelings, because if a PLS were employed, he would put his foot down and make it more clear to the contractor that there was a serious problem sooner and more emphatically than I did.


 
Posted : October 28, 2021 8:33 pm
DDubya
(@ddubya)
Posts: 27
Member
Topic starter
Translate
English
Spanish
French
German
Italian
Portuguese
Russian
Chinese
Japanese
Korean
Arabic
Hindi
Dutch
Polish
Turkish
Vietnamese
Thai
Swedish
Danish
Finnish
Norwegian
Czech
Hungarian
Romanian
Greek
Hebrew
Indonesian
Malay
Ukrainian
Bulgarian
Croatian
Slovak
Slovenian
Serbian
Lithuanian
Latvian
Estonian
 
Posted by: @norman-oklahoma?ÿOnce the inspector refuses to sign off on an occupancy permit things will get done. It is the way of the construction world.

Yep


 
Posted : October 28, 2021 8:37 pm