Integrated surveying in Trimble Access

Integrated is great for setting control, since we get two different observation methods. It's an automatic additional redundancy for every single point.

I also used it a lot in the past for topographic surveys where there are plenty of obstructions and/or lots of hardscape. My MO was to set the total station up where it could see as much up under buildings and canopy as possible, or as much hardscape as possible, so that as soon as I approached something that needed a tighter elevation or was going to be tricky with RTK, I'd switch to optical. Also was great because I could get building face shots right at that time and not have to return. It was even better with the SX10, because I could scan too.

I haven't used integrated in a while, but I'm trying to get our crews to use it here because we are in RTN-land and don't even have to set up a base. They're having trouble understanding the benefits...

If I could have an R12i plus SX12 running integrated I'd never need another set of gear. Well, at least not for 5 years or so. Which is a long time nowadays.

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Posted by: @350rocketmike

I still hate access and all of its inconsistencies and glitches, and the fact that none of the settings can get it to shoot faster than 7-8 seconds in semi active mode (when I'm used to 1-2 seconds on the old Leica) but anyway it is what it is, apparently it doesn't get any better than that.

I'm still scratching my head over this. I've never seen that sort of lag on any Trimble instrument when observing a prism. 7-8 seconds maybe for tough reflectorless shots, but semi-active is 1-3 on average.

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Posted by: @350rocketmike

Regular GPS search with the tsc7 internal GPS is a complete fail and waste of time in the typical sites I'm working in.

Next time you get the chance, get the instrument set up and complete your station setup. Then walk out from the instrument abtout 200 feet where you have decent sky visibility, lock on to the prism, then slowly walk in a semicircle keeping the same distance from the gun. Half-circle should be good. This will tighten up the GPS search, since it effectively has to do a "calibration" of the controller GPS to your station setup.

Also if you haven't already, go to Target Controls, then to the GPS search section and uncheck the "Use 3D" box. Autonomous GPS is just not great for vertical in general and as I'm sure youve seen will cause the scope to dive or go straight up when searching.

Still, it's not going to be great with lots of obstructions, it's still autonomous. I would love it if they could give that receiver a bit of an upgrade.

@rover83?ÿ

Your method sounds great for topos. I don't do a lot of that, usually I'm in a subdivision with lots of obstructions. I always tried to walk a circle around the total station, but going 200 feet is usually impossible. I don't even bother anymore since I am usually close enough that the GPS search won't help unless I am in integrated mode.?ÿ

I tried every number of "averaged observations" from the minimum 2 up to 20 and it doesn't make it take longer as it should, it actually is slightly faster at 10 observations, so I think this setting is actually broken.?ÿ

We're on a rain day today so I also tried the edm tolerance, bumping it from 0.003m to 0.011m and that also has zero effect on it. I don't understand why other people are getting faster shots, when all our s series take so much longer. I use active only now unless I'm worried about precise vertical. Active takes about 4-5 seconds and semi active is 8-10, consistently on our 2 s5's and one new s7. The sx12 only takes about 2 seconds to shoot but I don't get to use it often.?ÿ

Just speculating. I do not believe the instrument actually takes that long to resolve the shot so I think the delay is somewhere else. My guess it is in the communication from the instrument to the data collector. If possible to change these settings that is where I would look to solve the delay you are experiencing.

@lurker?ÿ

Part of the delay is in semi active mode it takes an extra 4 seconds to switch to passive and back to active again...

There doesn't seem to be a delay in other things such as changing face, turning on tracklights etc...the joystick does intermittently lag but it also randomly turns the instrument a full 90 degrees at once.?ÿ

The delay in the measurement is consistently the same within a second or so... everytime I shoot, whether I'm 10 feet from the robot or 100 ft.?ÿ

I know when I ran the Leica robot with the LR BT radio handle it would take a few extra seconds to shoot if I was at the limit of the Bluetooth range....but that doesn't seem to be the issue here.?ÿ

If it is indeed a communication delay issue I don't know how to fix it. I've also tried different target id, and channels etc, multiple times with no effect, plus this issue affects all of our s series robots, 3 different mt1000s and 2 different tsc7's, a couple different versions of access since I started. I've eliminated a lot of the possibilities I could think of.?ÿ

S6 is so fast I can't say how quick it takes a shot. Don't have a TSC7 but the TDC600 drags me around anywhere I want to go within a couple of feet. Searching for an old control point is simply a matter of calling up the map and zooming in, you're there and walk over to the point.?ÿ

I never noticed an issue with the measurement time for a reflectorless shot so I never timed it, but I just did now out of curiosity. It takes 3 seconds for a close DR shot.?ÿ

I don't know if this means anything.?ÿ

@mightymoe?ÿ

Are you sure you're actually "measuring" and not just storing the last position in tracking mode? I do that for rough topo shots but I prefer to measure when I'm doing somewhat precise layout or shooting building corners, monuments etc.?ÿ

I sure wish I had a tdc600 or something similar for some of the rural jobs. It would have issues with the huge uploads and DXF I am given in the large subdivisions I usually work in, but the occasional rural job it's tough lugging a pole and bipod with the GPS and tsc7 on it, plus a metal detector, shovel, some stakes etc and the smaller uploads of these jobs wouldn't be a problem for the weaker processor.?ÿ

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It seems to be at least a second quicker today, maybe the lack of sunlight in my basement helps? Hopefully this video works. It's set to 2 averaged observations and semi active mode.?ÿ

@350rocketmike put the edm in tracking mode then it will have a distance at all times and once you ?ÿhit the measure or accept button its will be much quicker. But Something is not correct for that length of time for sure. I suspect itƒ??s something going on in some operating system settings or something. I have never seen that take that long and I used semi active mode a lot when vertical was critical. Do you have an IT people that set up all the security things before you are given the TSC7. Even the TSC3 is not that slow. ?ÿ

On the integrated surveying I love it for much of what has been stated but I also used in on construction staking especially like subdivision work where the main control was say around the boundary and clearing done in different phases. So I could set my robot up wherever I wanted and never set a point in the ground physically. ?ÿI would do resection from gps observations and then switch back to optical for staking. ?ÿNow mind the accuracy requirements of RTK when doing so. ?ÿIt worked really well for staking new cl roads etc and such. If you have enough relief and rtk is good enough for vertical but you want say a section of road curb and gutter to be relatively tight to itself but rtk is good enough for getting you on the datum the. That would also work also. But geezers no wonder you are complaining about how long its taking to get a shot. Maybe on initial backsight but never that long for a topo or regular shot. If vertical is not a big issue leave it in active mode.?ÿ

@olemanriver?ÿ

Normally it is in tracking mode when I hit measure, as I'm staking out a point for layout most of the time. I didn't really notice a difference doing it that way vs being in standard mode and measuring, if there is a difference I think it's minor.?ÿ

I do stick to active mode when I'm not worried about vertical...it only takes 4 seconds to measure that way. In passive mode it takes just under 4 seconds. Reflectorless is just under 3 seconds which I think is completely reasonable.?ÿ

Some days I'm pinning several townhouses that have 40-50 corners each....it's days like that where the slow measuring is most frustrating. Or days where I have a lot of reflectorless shots doing as builts.?ÿ

As far as the software, it has been connected to our server so I can upload/download in the field...other than that nothing has been done by IT. And the first couple months before I could get that done it was just as Trimble sent it out. I used a flash drive for uploads. I have actually ran a windows debloat script to speed it up a bit as it was starting to feel a bit slow. It's very barebones windows 10 with nothing much running besides access.?ÿ

I just updated the firmware this morning on the r10 while it was pouring rain out, so hopefully that improves its performance some. I got to try the r12 one day and it's night and day difference in canopy. And I've been using the r10 a lot more since I started using integrated.?ÿ

@350rocketmike yeah I have ran the TSC7 and to be honest when staking It shot to quickly as I would anticipate where I was and hit measure a bit before I was completely plumb and have to re stake so I didnƒ??t set something wrong. I have no idea why yours is doing what it is. The TSC7 is faster than the TSC5 which you had trouble with prior if I remember correctly. And the TSC5 was way faster than what I am seeing on your video. ?ÿI am wondering if you have something going on with the S5 is it an older one. Maybe thatƒ??s where the issue is. ?ÿI know some S5 did not come with active mode and I have seen a couple S series get wonky and need the firmware flashed but usually on much older rode hard ones. Heck they had a S6 that was from 2012 ish and it finally freaked out one day. ?ÿBut they went in cleaned it and fixed something on the inside and it was still running well. The S5 I ran I always had track lights on and It was great and I did a lot of topo and staking in woods and it would lock on me and burn a distance when I still donƒ??t know how it did that. Something somewhere is not correct. I love wild and have ran leica total stations and robots. And between Trimble and Leica I would never say one is better than the other. Leica reflector beam is tight Trimble on S5 S6 etc is not as good or fine. ?ÿBut I would run circles in obstructed areas and areas with high traffic around a leica with a Trimble . As matter of fact we had a shoot out once and this was when S6 came out and the leica power search if i am remembering the terminology right. And even the leica dealer was like uhmmm thats a game changer. Now that was some time ago. But ?ÿI donƒ??t know who or where your dealer is but I would be having them out and have the leica robot and Trimble both set up and say look why what is the problem. No reason for your troubles.

@olemanriver?ÿ

Yeah I had issues with the tsc5, but that was lag opening the point manager and intermittent touchscreen freezing up... measuring took the same amount of time roughly with that data collector. I didn't time it back then but I didn't notice a difference between the 2.?ÿ

The active tracking is definitely better in certain conditions than the Leica...but not always. The Leica had really good prediction and you could set it to 5 seconds meaning I could walk past a lot more stuff on construction sites and regain lock almost every time. In thick trees I can definitely keep a lock better with the Trimble, but it still loses it often enough that searching with the joystick is frustrating. I didn't realize how good powersearch was until I didn't have it anymore. Also the sokkias with the rc5 active tracking unit couldn't keep a lock very well but the search was always reliable like the Leica.?ÿ

The s7 is a lot better because I can get a lock much faster with the video feed than with the joystick and guidelights. I wish my guidelights would stay on permanently because it's too painful to get lock without them.?ÿ

Wanted to run that with an rtk base. Found out you can't have two antenna in close proximity running on the same frequency. ?ÿ

@rj-schneider?ÿ

I only have VRS so it never even crossed my mind if you could run integrated with a base as well. Good to know.?ÿ