This week, I had a client that, in the interest of wanting to save money, asked if I would shoot her ffe to determine whether or not it was above or below the bfe. If above, she wanted me to proceed with an elevation certificate, if not then that was the end of it. I did my best to explain that the ffe is very important, but not the only factor in determining flood rates. I also made it clear I didn't have anything to do with rates--my job is to supply the numbers. She said she understood and I charged her my rate to set a benchmark.
Anyway, the bfe was 12' and her ffe was 11.5'. I called her up and asked if she wanted me to proceed. She said "no", since she was below the ffe.
Today she called me and said her insurance company rounds to the nearest foot and that would round up to 12'. Does this sound right? I could see if the bfe was 12' and the ffe was, say, 13.2', then they would round it down to 13'.
I just can't see them rounding it UP TO THE BFE.
Like I said, I don't claim to speak for insurance companies, but I found this to be very curious.
Well, how the insurance company handles your numbers is their business, I guess. I would not round my numbers up like that on the form. I have heard that from other people though, but usually they want ME to round the measurement, and somehow can't find the actual FEMA bulletin that says we should be doing that.
Just offer to provide the certification with the true measurements on it and see what happens.
On the elevation certificate, the data is supposed to be given to the tenth.
The rules of significant figures would dictate that means plus or minus a tenth, not plus or minus a foot.
Please don't think that I was insinuating that I was going to round my numbers.
I just found it hard to believe--as crucial as these elevations are--that an insurance company would round to the nearest foot--especially when the elevation was BELOW the ffe.
oh, no, not what I meant at all. Just that anyone asking about rounding is probably going to tell you that you should round your numbers, you know, since the insurance company doesn't "really care" .. wink wink.
I can't believe you guys don't know this stuff. Sounds like a class is in order
The insurance rates are rounded to the nearest foot. It goes by -2, -1,0 +1,+2, etc.
A 0 means the means the lowest floor is at the BFE and a +1 means the lowest floor is 1' higher than the BFE. If the BFE is a 12 then a lowest floor between 11.6 and 12.4 would be a 0 but a 12.6 to 13.4 would qualify to be a +1, in which the person would pay a lower rate over someone who is at a 0. So yes what she is telling you is the truth.
Keep in mind this is just for insurance purposes, for the community purposes all new structures need to be at or above the BFE to the nearest tenth of a foot.
In other words a community will not let you build a new structure to a 11.6' with a 12' BFE.
I tell all my clients who need to add fill to build to the BFE to ask their insurance agent what is the reduction in rates if they add just over half of a foot more of fill to get to the +1 rating. It is usually a 3-4 year payout and most do it.
I don't know what they do with 11.5 or 12.5 with the rounding.
What is a ffe?
I'm not surprised. The BFE is just an estimate of a probability; it's not like Mother Nature is limited to the exact amount of rain which will result in a given BFE.
Since Hurricane Andrew wiped out a chunk of SE Florida, we've been keenly aware of the way insurance companies use FEMA certs. Whether a builder goes that extra .5' for +1 rates and the typical two bucks flood premium discount depends on how much the fill or stemwall is costing him. Lately, the few houses we've staked have been +1.
On the other hand, I've seen insurance premiums adding in a 10X penalty for -1. +1 gets $200, -1 pays $2,000...hmmm. Kinda funny how that works.
I should have said the lowest floor elevations are rounded to the nearest foot and assigned a number based upon where it is in relation to the BFE. The insurance rates are based upon that assigned number. For example and I am pulling numbers out of the air a policy rated at a 0 would be $0.20 per hundred dollars of coverage, where a +1 would be $0.13/hundred with a -1 being $0.35.
Remeber there are two side of the elevation certificate the first for insurance and the second for community purposes and each have their own rules to follow and can be different.
I suppose some places are so flat you don't have much choice if you want to live in that city, but I've promised myself I will never own a house which is not several feet above the all-time historical high water mark. I've mucked out someone's flooded house. Tornadoes, earthquakes, hurricanes, and groundwater may get me, but I'm going to stay out of the way of rivers.
Me too Bill
My house sits right on top of two drainage basins. If MY house floods there are going to many houses around me that are under 20+ feet of water.
Several years ago there was a 500+ year flood in south Georgia. My sister had been paying flood insurance for years but did not flood, but there were people in the area that were "above" BFE that did flood. It's just an educated guesstimate.
By the way. When the big flood came the Reverend Jesse Jackson came into town complaining of the "racism" of the City. According to Jesse the City was pumping water from the "white" side of town to the "black" side. That was UNTIL he saw how the entire City was flooded and someone finally convinced him that there were not enough pumps in the world to handle that flood.
Andy
> What is a ffe?
Interesting information for sure. Thank you much.
ffe: I'm assuming is Final Floor Elevation. Most times I've seen it as FF (Final Floor)
finish floor elevation
that's the elevation a Fin would build his house at...
Out har har har!
Me too Bill
The nearest flood zone to were I am sitting is less than 2000 feet away, but, about 60 feet lower. No way am I going to live anywhere that floods. Noah and the boys would have to be able to come floating by for my home to flood.
Me too Bill
A half of a foot is enough to flood the carpet and basement of a house in
Florida or Kentucky. I have worked on flood control studies where the
hydrology engineer was taking digitized 20-foot contours from a USGS quadrangle
and determining flood plain lines for FEMA.
