Got a call from a local County reviewer yesterday. She is reviewing a Parcel Split map that has been sitting in her office for 3 weeks... She says "I wonder if you could do me a favor?" "Well, I can trey" I said. "Your map is drawn at 1"=80', and I am having a hard time because my scale only goes up to 60" she says. "Could you plot it at 1"=60' so I can check it."
My jaw hit the floor and an awkward silence followed. I was absolutely, truly speechless. I think she began to understand the silence, and she said "I know you can use the other scales somehow, but it's too hard and I always get confused."
I'm still somewhat in a state of shock... and yes, I did plot her 1"=60' scale drawing...
We don't draw anything at a 1"=80' scale for that exact reason. Remember we are there to serve the general public, and the general public doesn't know how to multiply by 2. My questions is though, what would she do with a scale of 100, 200, 300, 400, 500, or 600?
I often see requirements that specify the scale must be 10, 20, 30, 40, 50, 60, or 100. I never use 80. I'll just go to 100 even if everything looks tiny. It's easier than dealing with people that can't figure it out and having to do it over anyway....
Lay your scale on the copy machine, find the enlarge/reduce button,...
BrandonA, post: 393135, member: 11837 wrote: We don't draw anything at a 1"=80' scale for that exact reason. Remember we are there to serve the general public, and the general public doesn't know how to multiply by 2. My questions is though, what would she do with a scale of 100, 200, 300, 400, 500, or 600?
I use 1 to 80 when I need to, I do not feel using a 1 to 80 scale is within the scope of protecting the general public.I feel that is more like do not give the extra land to your client, prorate the land, mark the corners you find or set the corners, label the adjoiners, show roads or access on the survey. If the client ask you to do something on the survey or do a survey you know is against the rules or illegal, that's when you say sorry I need to protect the public,and my license.
I do not like the 1 to 130 or 1 to 140 scales I have seen a few times.
BrandonA, post: 393135, member: 11837 wrote: We don't draw anything at a 1"=80' scale for that exact reason. Remember we are there to serve the general public, and the general public doesn't know how to multiply by 2. My questions is though, what would she do with a scale of 100, 200, 300, 400, 500, or 600?
If they can't multiply by 2 they damn sure can't use a scale!
Scott Ellis, post: 393141, member: 7154 wrote: I use 1 to 80 when I need to, I do not feel using a 1 to 80 scale is within the scope of protecting the general public.I feel that is more like do not give the extra land to your client, prorate the land, mark the corners you find or set the corners, label the adjoiners, show roads or access on the survey. If the client ask you to do something on the survey or do a survey you know is against the rules or illegal, that's when you say sorry I need to protect the public,and my license.
I do not like the 1 to 130 or 1 to 140 scales I have seen a few times.
I am not saying the board will revoke your license, I am saying similar things have happened to me and that is why we try to avoid the "bastard scales" as they have been refered to by other surveyors I have worked under.
How much scaling are these reviewers actually doing? Checking every distance? They should be checking a couple lines to see if the listed scale is correct, and then move on.
Jim,
You did the right thing by accommodating them. Some battles are best not fought. In my transmittal, I would have mentioned multiplication of indicated scaled distances and/or the reduction/enlargement factors on a copy machine which would have achieved the same goal. In fact, I may have hand delivered the resubmittal package.
BrandonA, post: 393148, member: 11837 wrote: I am not saying the board will revoke your license, I am saying similar things have happened to me and that is why we try to avoid the "bastard scales" as they have been refered to by other surveyors I have worked under.
I agree the board will not revoke a license over a scale, and I only use 1 to 80 when needed. I hear alot of the older Surveyors that say never use 1 to 80, however they feel 1 to 100 is fine to use. You still need to mult that by 2 if using the one 1 to 50 scale or by 5 if using the 1 to 20 scale.
Scott Ellis, post: 393160, member: 7154 wrote: I agree the board will not revoke a license over a scale, and I only use 1 to 80 when needed. I hear alot of the older Surveyors that say never use 1 to 80, however they feel 1 to 100 is fine to use. You still need to mult that by 2 if using the one 1 to 50 scale or by 5 if using the 1 to 20 scale.
Interesting, I always use 1: 10 scale for a 1:100 drawing.... I get it, I understand a 1:80 scale, but most people, like the person checking the plant in the OP unfortunately don't....
Whatever makes it look right is what gets used. I used a 250 today. I will gladly train stupid people how to properly use their handy dandy scale to get any number desired. For a 250 they can use their 50 scale.
Scott Ellis, post: 393160, member: 7154 wrote: I agree the board will not revoke a license over a scale, and I only use 1 to 80 when needed. I hear alot of the older Surveyors that say never use 1 to 80, however they feel 1 to 100 is fine to use. You still need to mult that by 2 if using the one 1 to 50 scale or by 5 if using the 1 to 20 scale.
What? Why don't you use the 10 scale which is the same as the 100?
Dan Patterson, post: 393166, member: 1179 wrote: What? Why don't you use the 10 scale which is the same as the 100?
That is true about the 10 scale. I was making a point that sometimes you are going to have to mult the scale. and I never use my 10 scale since it is broken on my scale bar, so I have been using the 50, been doing it for years and kinda forgot about just using the 10.
Scott Ellis, post: 393169, member: 7154 wrote: That is true about the 10 scale. I was making a point that sometimes you are going to have to mult the scale. and I never use my 10 scale since it is broken on my scale bar, so I have been using the 50, been doing it for years and kinda forgot about just using the 10.
Spring for a new one....I bought the metal ones a while back and they last a long time.
I had a contractor ask me what a scale rule was. It was a couple weeks before Christmas, so the next morning there was a $5 plastic scale rule with a bow on it in the trailer....
I find it disconcerting the County reviewer is using a scale to check your map. He/she should be ticking aff all technical statutory requirements (North Arrow, symbol legend, 1" border, sheet size, linetypes are correct, text size, signature blocks, etc.), checking the math as labelled for consistency, parcels close perfectly, sublengths add up, acreages add up, etc., references to other maps & documents are shown and correct, record bearings and distances agree with their record document(s), etc. Most importantly, that the map conforms to regulations, Parcel sizes, access requirements, the right signatories and Schedule B items shown according to the Title Report, etc.
Aren't you required to submit mapcheck closures for all parcels, the Title Report, a copy of the Tentative Map if one was required, copies of all documents and record maps referenced on the map along with your map? NO scaling is required to properly review a map.
I'd be concerned if a reviewer contacted me by phone instead of in writing (or email these days) concerning the review, totally unprofessional. Her request for a rescaled map so it matches her scale sets off alarm bells methinks. Around here you have to pay (sometimes an exorbitant amount depending on jurisdiction) for a map review, and it's money well spent if the review is thorough, preferably by an LS. One last pair of eyes before recordation couldn't hurt and I always include a "thank you for your attention to detail" note in the cover letter upon second submittal if they find error(s)/omission(s). Of course, sweetest of all is a letter from them after 1st submittal stating the map is ready for recordation with no changes;).
Dan Patterson, post: 393173, member: 1179 wrote: Spring for a new one....I bought the metal ones a while back and they last a long time.
I had a contractor ask me what a scale rule was. It was a couple weeks before Christmas, so the next morning there was a $5 plastic scale rule with a bow on it in the trailer....
We pass out 6" scales with the company name imprinted as marketing items...
Daniel Ralph, post: 393156, member: 8817 wrote: Jim,
You did the right thing by accommodating them. Some battles are best not fought. In my transmittal, I would have mentioned multiplication of indicated scaled distances and/or the reduction/enlargement factors on a copy machine which would have achieved the same goal. In fact, I may have hand delivered the resubmittal package.
Oh - I did. I plotted it out and ran it right up to her. When I delivered it she tried to tell me that the access easement granted 15 years ago didn't exist... She apparently didn't understand that 2001 occurred prior to 2016. Apparently she not only can't multiply by 2, she can't subtract either!
Jim in AZ, post: 393186, member: 249 wrote: Oh - I did. I plotted it out and ran it right up to her. When I delivered it she tried to tell me that the access easement granted 15 years ago didn't exist... She apparently didn't understand that 2001 occurred prior to 2016. Apparently she not only can't multiply by 2, she can't subtract either!
Enough of the over the counter and phone conversations with this person; request as nicely as you can any further interactions be in writing (because of your failing memory and heavy workload), preferably through the usual 1st submittal, response, second submittal, response, ad nauseum if necessary. It's odd how if it's 6 months later and you're on the 5th submittal any verbal events are conveniently forgotten.
I stick to this religiously; years ago the County reviewer (nice guy actually) and I were regular attendees at our local Surveyor's Association meetings and over coffee he brought up a problem in a submittal of mine under his review. I nicely said add it to your comments in the next submittal cycle so I can keep track of it. You can be friends with these people and still insist they play by the rules.
BrandonA, post: 393148, member: 11837 wrote: I am not saying the board will revoke your license, I am saying similar things have happened to me and that is why we try to avoid the "bastard scales" as they have been refered to by other surveyors I have worked under.
I wouldn't consider 1"=80', or any other scale that is a simple, whole number multiplier of a scale that is traditionally on one of the 6 surfaces of a physical engineer's scale to be "bastard" scales.
Something like a 1"=70', 1"=90', ore any other scale that can't be reached by multiplying one of the traditional scales by a whole number is a bastard scale, IMO.
Like Jim said, if a person can't work with a scale where all they need to do is multiply or divide by two, then perhaps map checking is not in the career path that best suits that person.
