So the deed and title mean nothing? Today my CURRENT boundary is here but I've been Jones'ing for that nice little spot over there so I think I will make that spot my CURRENT boundary.
You are making it sound fluid and ever changing.?ÿ I don't think I want you anywhere near my neighbors property because he routinely mows some of my yard and you might say that is the CURRENT boundary but next week his mow line will change and that is the NEWER REVISED CURRENT boundary.
Can you show me case law where intentionally moving boundaries is legal and acceptable??ÿ?ÿ If not, then I'd suggest you put that straw man back in the barn.
Title and boundary are two separate things, two different areas of law.?ÿ?ÿ?ÿ They are NOT the same thing.
No, it is not fluid and ever changing.?ÿ I never said or implied such a ridiculous position.?ÿ?ÿ?ÿ But I can show you authoritative sources that say our job is to find the current boundary (it is a logical), not where it was "supposed to be".
So the deed and title mean nothing? Today my CURRENT boundary is here but I've been Jones'ing for that nice little spot over there so I think I will make that spot my CURRENT boundary.
You are making it sound fluid and ever changing.?ÿ I don't think I want you anywhere near my neighbors property because he routinely mows some of my yard and you might say that is the CURRENT boundary but next week his mow line will change and that is the NEWER REVISED CURRENT boundary.
Can you show me case law where intentionally moving boundaries is legal and acceptable??ÿ?ÿ If not, then I'd suggest you put that straw man back in the barn.
Title and boundary are two separate things, two different areas of law.?ÿ?ÿ?ÿ They are NOT the same thing.
No, it is not fluid and ever changing.?ÿ I never said or implied such a ridiculous position.?ÿ?ÿ?ÿ But I can show you authoritative sources that say our job is to find the current boundary (it is a logical), not where it was "supposed to be".
Well then show those "authoritative sources" so I when I go out tomorrow I can be sure and survey tomorrows boundary and not last Wednesdays boundary, since "(it is a logical)" because I sure don't want to show it where is is "supposed to be".
?ÿNow....it is possible I'm picking at nits here.
This would be a great place for an eye rolling emoticon.
Does "current" mean tomorrow??ÿ?ÿ?ÿ?ÿ?ÿ?ÿ?ÿ?ÿ Interesting.
A logical question:?ÿ When two land owners go to court to ask the court "where is the boundary?", does the court decide where was the boundary 60?ÿyears ago , or does the court determine where is the?ÿboundary currently located between the two parties??ÿ
Here's some light reading to get you started.
TYSON v. EDWARDS, 433 So.2d 549
?ÿWILLIS v. CAMPBELL, 500 So. 2d 300
?ÿGRIFFEL V. REYNOLDS, 34 P.3d 1080
The Judicial Function of Surveyors
By THOMAS M. COOLEY
CHIEF JUSTICE, SUPREME COURT OF MICHIGAN, 1864-1885
This would be a great place for an eye rolling emoticon.
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A judge can put the boundary any reasonable place to assure equal frustration and/or monetary value.
You must prove your location for it to stand.
No reason to that I can think of, but don't know WA specific laws on the subject.?ÿ In NY the map would be enough for the client.?ÿ Seller is required to deliver marketable title.?ÿ Marketable title is one that title insurance will cover without exceptions for possible encroachments.?ÿ So, the map is enough to let the client (potential buyer) back out of the contract for sale if they so wish (without facing a specific performance suit).?ÿ It's up to the seller to cure the problem by whatever means if they want the sale to go through. NY also has a disclosure requirement of known possible defects, so seller and real estate folks will now have to disclose to any future potential buyer.?ÿ Seller is going to have to deal with it eventually, whether they like it or not.
Where can those cases be found to read?
Where can those cases be found to read?
Generally, these days,?ÿ you can just google the case titles and up they come.?ÿ
You would have saved all of us a lot of needless back and forth if that little nugget was disclosed in your first post and not your last post.
I little unfair I think.?ÿ It's the perfect type of post for a survey forum to get some feedback and other's professional opinion on a problem he encountered.?ÿ ?ÿNo one's asking you to stamp and sign to your thoughts on the subject.
Those cases concern monuments set by the original surveyor. Many times lakeside lots were laid out by taping along the existing access road in the 1940's. A wooden stake at most was probably set as the lot corner. The sidelines of the lot were never run evidenced by the line extending out into the lake. I have yet to understand why Lakeside lots were so poorly surveyed. Possibly in the 1940's the land was not considered as valuable as it is today. The monuments usually found vary from rock piles, pipes, and metal pins. The distances between corners usually vary greatly from the platted deminsions. They are usually no shoreline monuments to be found. The corner locations along the road are not on a straight bearing as depicted on the Plat, but follow the edge of the road. I've had lot owners admit they placed markers to maintain their lot corners. You have to examine every lot corner monument to varify the consistancy of monumentation. A nail, a 1/2 rebar, a spike set in a coffee can of concrete, a 2" pipe, and a 1 " pipe most likely are not original monuments. The flustrating part is they don't mathmatically correspond to the other corners.
These corner markers probably do best mark the lines of current owners occupation, but it is my contention that since they were obviously not set by the original Surveyor a Boundary Line Agreement is required to legally establish them as legitimate monuments. Boundary Line Agreements probably cost $10,000 maximum. A legal ruling from a Judge costs a minumum of $100,000 for both parties and can take years. If the affected Landowners are given a say in where the lot line is to be located, you'll probably have a lot lest hornets swarming around your head.
The?ÿThe Judicial Function of Surveyors?ÿBy THOMAS M. COOLEY CHIEF JUSTICE, SUPREME COURT OF MICHIGAN, 1864-1885 should be mandatory reading for every Surveyor.
You would have saved all of us a lot of needless back and forth if that little nugget was disclosed in your first post and not your last post.
I little unfair I think.?ÿ It's the perfect type of post for a survey forum to get some feedback and other's professional opinion on a problem he encountered.?ÿ ?ÿNo one's asking you to stamp and sign to your thoughts on the subject.
iPhone Like ??
. Boundary Line Agreements probably cost $10,000 maximum.
Why in the world would a boundary-line-agreement cost $10,000??ÿ (I've never done one, but in general, I understand it is designed to be an inexpensive way to establish a defined location.)
OP Here is my take on this, you were hired to do a survey to determine if there are any problems for a real estate transaction. There are certainly problems. At this point if your client is no longer interested in buying the property it is no longer your problem. To go back and set pins creates a liability for you and does not necessarily protect the public. I will say that if the encroaching cabin has been there for 40 years he probably has a good claim for ownership.?ÿ
Some of these guys are high dollar surveyors. So I exaggerated the amounts a little.
Thanks for that. For a limited time I'll do one for $9,995.
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Thanks for that. For a limited time I'll do one for $9,995.
?ÿ
I'm not falling for that old trick; you bill me $9,995 for the survey and make up the difference with an outrageous shipping and handling charge
That there's funny.?ÿ But some truth to it.?ÿ My last 10k, lake lot agreement, was not entered into.?ÿ Each side then paid about 40k apiece for shipping (court costs) and handling (attorneys), to arrive right where I suggested.?ÿ Now on appeal, so may reach the 100k apiece level.
I've got one going right now. The survey is at $28,000. The section had to be broken down to determine the Government Lot Line. One side's Attorney fees are $120,000, the other side's fees $80,000. We haven't even been to Court yet. A totally fraudulent original nonsurvey. Everyone staked out their own lots with an assortment of objects. High value river front lots appraised at $1 million plus. The Developer is still alive. I hope to live to see him pay for the mess he created. He sold the lots originally for $3000 an acre.