How ethical?

I'm wondering why you feel it would be a conflict of interest to set your own corners?

I've surveyed (and set some corners) on almost every piece of property I've owned.

I'm supposing if there were ever a boundary dispute with an adjoiner, you would enlist someone other than yourself.

Since you do not need a license to survey on your own property, why would having a license preclude you from doing so?

Paul in PA

Oh absolutely! If there was an issue, I would have to arrange to have another surveyor to check it out. I would feel a bit troubled about marking it. Like I said, it could be seen as a conflict of interest. Especially in sue happy California.

> Since you do not need a license to survey on your own property, why would having a license preclude you from doing so?
>
> Paul in PA

Well I suppose it depends on what is meant by "survey your own property". Does that include monumentation of the property lines? When one measures his own land he also measures his neighbors by default. Are we not held to a higher standard as surveyors than a layman? I'd like to think so. But I digress.
Actually, I am beginning to see that it is an acceptable practice to layout ones own property. And that is what I was curious about.

This question has been debated a number of times over the years on this and the previous boards. There are two camps.....yes and no. There seems to be no middle ground on the issue.

I have done my own and I have intentionally not done some of my own. My most recent purchase is of a 60-acre tract that was surveyed in the 1870's and I found all four corners of that tract over 10 years ago. The stones are all still in place. I have set lot corners on some town lots while surveying for clients with nearby lots. I did everything for the clients first, then added my lot corners after the fact. I did not predetermine where my lot corners might be based on standard visual evidence. I solved the big puzzle first for the clients then worked from that solution to obtain my own.

I purchased one farm tract from a fellow surveyor. We had a third surveyor in charge of the survey while we jointly went to each tract corner to find the ones that had been set by the third surveyor previously and then added the two corners we needed to separate the tract I was getting from the parent tract. No chicanery whatsoever.

I have intentionally avoided one farm because there is a significant issue involved in re-establishing two of the sides. There is no record of a center section corner monument. There is no apparent monument of any kind near the apparent center corner. Meanwhile the north quarter corner monument is definitely gone and no one has ever surveyed down that side of the section to the best of my research. The big problem is with determining the true location of the quarter-quarter corner west of the north quarter corner. This is in Section 18 so that is actually the NE corner of Lot 1. Government notes indicate the north line is roughly 300 feet short of being 80 chains. The existing fenceline used as the east line of Lot 1 is almost exactly one-quarter of the total measured distance of the mile. This suggests some landowners measured the mile as best they could and divided it into fourths, not realizing the shortage that should all be in Lot 1.

> This question has been debated a number of times over the years on this and the previous boards. There are two camps.....yes and no. There seems to be no middle ground on the issue.
>
> I have done my own and I have intentionally not done some of my own.....
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By no means did I intend to create a debate. Purely curious about what has been accepted by the professional population. When I got the response that it has been done, I realized it is not unheard of, nor even frowned upon. Personally, I am a bit hesitant. More cautious than most. But, maybe now I wouldn't discard the possibility of marking off my (and my neighbors) lines.

So I give you all my thanks for your input.:-)

I've surveyed every property have owned and divided part of the family's farm into tracts.

Never thought twice about it.

If I can't trust myself, then who?

There is one monument on the office property that has been reset half dozen times as the utility companies and county have destroyed it thru the last 25yrs.

:gammon:

There is nothing unethical about that.

Surveying the lines of the abutters is really what you do when you survey a lot..right? Locate the walls/fences. File a CR if you want.

You're paying for the land, so just go ahead and do it.

Look...if you know where the walls and fences are, then whats the sense in setting corners anyway?

And whats the BOR got to do with this?

If you cannot survey your own land in an unbiased manner then you shouldn't be a land surveyor in the first place.

I have surveyed the last two pieces of property we owned. I have no problem with it, BUT, if I ran into a situation that had a hint of conflict, I would call a respected competitor and have them check my work.

i've surveyed my corners and all of my neighbors' corners. my firm did divide and subdivide the land prior to my purchase of my house (nice of a developer who does not want to pay, so just turn it into a down payment)

i too have the concern over a potential conflict on some other land. i own 7/72 of my g. g. grandfather's land. these are old woodlots that nobody cared about back in the late 1800s / early 1900s and the retracements get very messy. i plan to perform my work, then have a different surveyor review everything. i know of one that may have a significant overlap from a recent survey.

use your best judgement and have some open communication with your neighbors. if they are all lawyers, then perhaps you want to use some caution. if they are reasonable people, be reasonable with them.

Several surveyors I've known, have had another surveyor in their office review and stamp the final product. If any legal issue was to arise there would be less conflict.

>The big problem is with determining the true location of the quarter-quarter corner west of the north quarter corner. This is in Section 18 so that is actually the NE corner of Lot 1. Government notes indicate the north line is roughly 300 feet short of being 80 chains. The existing fenceline used as the east line of Lot 1 is almost exactly one-quarter of the total measured distance of the mile. This suggests some landowners measured the mile as best they could and divided it into fourths, not realizing the shortage that should all be in Lot 1.

H.C., your post jogged my memory of a very interesting case concerning a very similar issue, so not intending to hijack, I'll post this for those interested.
Willis v Campbell

>By no means did I intend to create a debate. Purely curious about what has been accepted by the professional population. When I got the response that it has been done, I realized it is not unheard of, nor even frowned upon. Personally, I am a bit hesitant. More cautious than most. But, maybe now I wouldn't discard the possibility of marking off my (and my neighbors) lines.

I can't believe you didn't create more of a debate. There are many who frown upon it from what I've seen when this has been brought up before.

Thanks for that, Brian. That is much like my situation, which would be harder to defend because others would tend to assume I would err in my favor.

Like some others here, I've surveyed every house/lot I ever owned and don't know why you would ever consider not doing so yourself. If anything I am harder on myself than normal when doing so and I figure over the years I have saved a lot of cash doing so. The only exception was when I recently moved to Texas and wasn't yet licensed here and paid another fellow surveyor to do it for me. Whenever I sold a place, I always made a copy of my survey available to the buyers RE agent to supply to their surveyor of choice.

> ... If anything I am harder on myself than normal when doing so ....

I agree with you dridata. I would also would scrutinize the survey to the extreme. Just to be darn sure that nothing went wrong.

Since I was "challenged" to make this a debate (against my better judgement):

But, I have yet to hear anyone comment on the potential for 'conflict of interest' part of this! I agree that it is legal to survey your own property. But, I also know that the human propensity is to err on the side that benefits ones-self.

What if the survey went sour and you discovered a major blunder in the original tract and you were junior in rights? Now how would you handle it?
A) Hush up and keep it to yourself. Or
B) File a Record of Survey.
Pretty much the only two real options.
I know what the answer is, as do we all. But that doesn't mean it will happen.

So again, it circles back to the original question: Is it ethical to survey your own property?

This is hypothetical. In my case a simultaneous conveyance makes this a non-issue in terms of senior/junior rights.

Thank you for your comments to date and I look forward to the ones to follow.

> But, I have yet to hear anyone comment on the potential for 'conflict of interest' part of this! I agree that it is legal to survey your own property. But, I also know that the human propensity is to err on the side that benefits ones-self.
>

EVERY survey one performs has the "potential" for a conflict of interest claim. In fact, in the publics eye, a case could possibly be made every surveyor is following the "propensity" to err on the side that benefits ones-self", ie, trying to benefit the person who is paying him.

> What if the survey went sour and you discovered a major blunder in the original tract and you were junior in rights? Now how would you handle it?
> A) Hush up and keep it to yourself. Or
> B) File a Record of Survey.

How would you handle it if any survey went "sour" (not sure what that means) and your paying client was junior in rights? File a survey, or seek more or less money depending the evidence found?

> So again, it circles back to the original question: Is it ethical to survey your own property?
>

If one has the adequate professional knowledge, professional ability, and professioanl ethics to survey any clients property, he should have and use the same adequate professional knowledge, ability, and ethics to survey his own property. My opinion anyway. Remember, your methods, procedures, and resulting opinions should not be affected in any way no matter who owns the property or who is paying the bill.

I would have to say if a professional surveyor puts more effort, including more evidence gathering, note taking, documentation, etc., when surveying his own property, that surveyor had better look at his practices when surveying other peoples property. Are you really putting out a 100% effort when surveying the property of others, or just when your own property is involved?

I have no problem surveying my own land. It's not an ethical issue, unless you make it an ethical issue.

Follow the normal procedures for any boundary you'd normally do and roll on.

>
> What if the survey went sour and you discovered a major blunder in the original tract and you were junior in rights? Now how would you handle it?
> A) Hush up and keep it to yourself. Or
> B) File a Record of Survey.
> Pretty much the only two real options.
> I know what the answer is, as do we all. But that doesn't mean it will happen.

You have some good points. I think that is the reason a lot of people say to not survey your own property.

What if the survey went sour and you found a major blunder?

But I disagree with your "only two options".
1. you could stop your survey if you start to discover conflicting evidence, and hire an independent surveyor.
2. You could stake the senior corners like you would do if you were hired to work for a client.
3. you could talk to the neighbor about you findings and see if they always agreed with where your fences were. In which case you could possibly draw up a boundary-line agreement.

Some argue that a boundary-line agreement is only for when there actual corners are not determinable. But think about it. Exactly where is the property line between your properties? If it has been long-accepted to be at the fence (or whatever evidence that places it in a different location), and that conflicts with the deedwork, then is the property line certain? Couldn't you argue that some evidence puts it in one place and the other puts it in another? If so, that is the perfect scenario for a BLA.