How did "old school" chaining work?

I was part of an era when chaining a section boundary was common. We used 100' chains, set either conc. nails (in pvmt. or gravel) and flagged duplex nails in dirt. We chained both ways, sometimes more, until the results were acceptable. Closures on fairly flat or rolling topography were in the 1:5000 to 1:7500 range to be acceptable. There were a few we got lucky on and approached 1:20000. Those were on paved roads with very little traffic. We plumbed the chain and used a tension pull usually on one end only. It seemed to work. Measurements were between "stations" which were also used for angular measurements...probably section and quarter corners in a perfect world. Line was provided by a standard transit, but "chaining line" was rough, within 0.15' was considered OK.

It usually took two three or four man crews a week to complete a section boundary.

Interestingly enough I had one party chief that never compensated for temperature until we had measured between two stations, usually 2640'. Only then would he apply a temperature correction. His work was considered the best, btw.

I might also add the common procedure for "adjustment" of a traverse was what (I believe) we called the transit-rule maybe. The traverse was plotted until we closed on our last station and all the error (difference between the beginning latitudes and departures and ending) was then adjusted in the lengths and bearings. Each leg got its fair share of adjustment. The longer the leg, the more adjustment it received. Simplistic but effective.

Yeah...what Paden said. We, however carried a 300' and a 100' chain (steel tape) in our truck. We occasionally did pull out the 300' for some measurements, like getting across the waterway or an arroyo type thing. We would compass and pull 300' segments into the woods to look for a corner monument (sometimes). We would get a slop with the brunton compass and reduce for horizontal distance. (Many times we would pace, but sometimes use the 300 footer to get closer. We did call the steel tapes chains and it wasn't until later that I saw a real chain. We always used a reel for the chain, but a lot of guys liked to throw the chain and always do it the 'old fashioned' way. The term "Beer Leg" was a thing back then. The gunner got razzed if he put a leg on line....even if the forsight line hadn't been established yet. (You should anticipate which way you were going to go next.

I learned to "throw" a chain in school, but never forgot. It got confusing when someone would throw it left-handed and you didn't know they had. It was backwards for laying out (unreeling) the thrown chain.

Can't answer your "section" chaining, but I grew up on "chains".
100, 200 metre ones.
Pulled standardised 15 lbs, observed temperature and corrected for that and sag.
Always full catenary.
Never chained lines to plumbob always instrument to a picket and leap forward with T1A and repeat.
If setting out a peg would then chain to plumbob or if see top peg then direct.
Chaining pickets could be a sawn 2"X1" stake 4 to 6 foot, a "bush picket" cut from a small sapling pointed both ends and hand driven into the ground, or we had fancy poles made with steel points like a pile point that could be belted into hard ground.
Top of stake or latter pole would drive a nail in and measure to that.
Accuracies varied but wasn't hard to better 1:10000, some carefully run traverses bettered that.
I'd pull the chain with spring balance and a "reader" at my end whilst the chainman held against point.
Read, relax and reread. Repeat three times.
Wind was always an issue and in places where it never stopped (Bass Strait Islands) I'd assume an upward catenary due to wind was same as if no wind and apply normal sag.
Bush work was often 3 man but most work only 2 of us.
EDM's were a welcome new device that didn't take any getting used to.

paden cash, post: 384426, member: 20 wrote: I was part of an era when chaining a section boundary was common. We used 100' chains, set either conc. nails (in pvmt. or gravel) and flagged duplex nails in dirt. We chained both ways, sometimes more, until the results were acceptable. Closures on fairly flat or rolling topography were in the 1:5000 to 1:7500 range to be acceptable. There were a few we got lucky on and approached 1:20000. Those were on paved roads with very little traffic. We plumbed the chain and used a tension pull usually on one end only. It seemed to work. Measurements were between "stations" which were also used for angular measurements...probably section and quarter corners in a perfect world. Line was provided by a standard transit, but "chaining line" was rough, within 0.15' was considered OK.

It usually took two three or four man crews a week to complete a section boundary.

Interestingly enough I had one party chief that never compensated for temperature until we had measured between two stations, usually 2640'. Only then would he apply a temperature correction. His work was considered the best, btw.

So, how were the chaining notes reduced to compensate for temperature, tension, sag and slope? Was this done in the field some how or did someone in the office do these computations?

When I was a rookie, my chief would always have me hold flat and he would adjust on the other end. He had it figured out, he was much better at guessing the correction than the rookie was at holding a plumb bob over a point :). I remember getting pissed off after a few weeks and asking him how I was ever going to learn if I couldn't do it the right way. I think he realized I was going to be around for awhile and I was worthy of training. I'm sure glad I got to start with a chain and a wild t-16 it was actually a lot of fun getting work done with a good crew back then. Much better than away fifty right twenty, pound it. Jp

Actually, I never really used a "chain"....maybe one of these days after work I'll take it out and give it a try.

On a day like today with the temp around 100 the steel engineers tape would be at about 130 we figured on hot asphalt and long by 0.06' per 100. That field adjustment seemed to work fairly well. Also we were allowed a 2 minute misclosure using that transit in my logo on a section traverse. I find all this talk about 7mm accuracy rather amusing.

Another thing we might do for example on a consistent 2% grade is slope tape and add 0.02 ft rather than plumb.

Rear chainman yells Holding 2, Head chainman responds Stuck 3 to track the station pins. If you neglected to make your call you would catch hell.

Dang this thread makes me feel old.

Bow Tie Surveyor, post: 384442, member: 6939 wrote: So, how were the chaining notes reduced to compensate for temperature, tension, sag and slope? Was this done in the field some how or did someone in the office do these computations?

We turned in notes that reflected a balanced traverse. Basically each leg got at least one page showing beginning and end station. In case of a blunder we also recorded the station of a few things along the route, to keep from dropping or adding a chain. Since we maintained a plumb chain, no slope correction was recorded. After we had chained it from both directions (only setting nails in one direction and hopefully not needing to adjust any of them) and the PC felt the two distances were within his tolerances (a tenth maybe, no more than two) he would apply and record the temperature correction for the entire leg on that page. That distance was what was used for the final adjustment. We had some standard sheets for the adjustment and there were times that two or three of us would work independently with our six-place tables and a small cranked Monroe...under the cover of a shade tree. We would compare our adjustments and arrive at a consensus which was turned in. All our computations and adjustments were done in the field. We were trained to think on our feet. Taking stuff back in to the office for digesting was something that got started back in the eighties.

There were times we did not set any permanent chaining nails also. Off pvmt. we used chaining pins. On smooth pvmt. we used a crow's foot, scratched with a nail. (We never EVER used a plumb bob for that....;) ). It was common to have enough personnel to have a grunt remain by the mark left by the head chainman until the tail chainman arrived at the station.

linebender, post: 384453, member: 449 wrote: On a day like today with the temp around 100 the steel engineers tape would be at about 130 we figured on hot asphalt and long by 0.06' per 100. That field adjustment seemed to work fairly well. Also we were allowed a 2 minute misclosure using that transit in my logo on a section traverse. I find all this talk about 7mm accuracy rather amusing.

Don't get picky on us. We all used 100' steel tapes. The affectionate term "chain" just seems to have stuck with us over the years.

I never heard anybody holler "TAPE!" when the end of the chain was fixing to arrive...;)

PS - the head of some our chaining nails were larger that 7mm!

always used the 300' chain (a steel tape on a big reel) and a brunton to slope correct. Chaining clamps, a tension puller, it is reel work 😎

Let's not forget about the lateral 90å¡ offsets along the way due to those damn line trees on the ran dumb line.

Find a 1940-1970's elementary surveying book to get a feel for many aspects of the era of transit and chain and manual calculation. I have a Davis, Foote, and Kelly that has been beside my bed for 35 years and is well-worn and marked up with notes.

I started surveying in 1972. We routinely chained out sections with a 200 ft Lufkin steel tape and a Lietz 20" second. transit.We would run a random closed traverse assuring that a traverse point was set in the proximity of section corners,1/4 cors etc. We would typically turn a set of 6 angles per occupied point(3 direct 3 reverse)We would tie in any existing corners along the way.(We would typically shoot for 1/10000 closure on the traverse.)We'd then balance and adjust the traverse(compass method) and calculate the values for both found monumentation and search coordinates for those not found.

Doing woods work with a 2 man crew in the hills, when you had a shot that exceeded the 300' tape length (but was less than 600' long) we'd turn angles to the point ahead, slope chain to a convenient P.O.T., move ahead, then slope chain back to the P.O.T, reduce both shots to horizontal and add 'em together. You could actually do many P.O.T.'s that way, setting up on every other one to do the slope chaining. Then came the K&E Autoranger, the Topcon DM-C1...

I started surveying at about the dawn of the EDM era but still remember chaining distances when the battery went dead or there was some other calamity with the hardware. The chain (tape) almost never failed us but we did break a couple requiring a Lufkin repair kit in the glove box of the Travelall. Those who used a repaired tape remember cutting their hands or jamming the reel on the repair job. Nothing funnier than a greenhorn trying to undo a properly (left handed) thrown tape finding themselves standing in a mess of quarter inch steel ribbon. Nevertheless, we usually left the reel in the truck and dragged the tape, 100 or 300 feet depending on conditions. This is where you learned or calibrated your pacing. I used to have a quiver of chaining pins but they disappeared years ago. We found one once, all rusty but still vertical; made me smile. Typically we would chain down and back, correcting for the mean temp at each end; I don't remember using a spring tension handle but do still carry my grips. Notes were kept by station and if you had enough men someone would keep a tally in the field book otherwise you would pick up a stone and put it in your pocket every chain and tally them at the end. How do you think those stone mounds at section corners got there?

I came in as a boy at the end of the chaining time, but I recall it being done about like these guys all said. We used chaining pins to mark the stations, 11 pins to a set. I still carry most of a set in my truck, cause some days you just need to measure out there a little ways. I recall the I man sending a guy out ahead to set a lath on line, so the chain crew could have a line to aim for. We hardly stretch chain (well, tape) anymore, but when we do, I find out that it's a lost art. Last time I had a crew needing to stretch out to set building corners, I saw the nyclad tape flapping in the wind. I went to show them how to pull the chain tight, and pulled the guy on the end right on his ass. He had never laid out a building before, I hadn't thought about it, so we had a quick lesson. For whit it's worth, we rarely lay out buildings.

Bow Tie Surveyor, post: 384422, member: 6939 wrote: I started surveying in the age of the EDM and I have never seen what old school chaining looked like.

For a typical section survey, what length of tape would you use (100', 200', something else)? How many people did it take? How did you stay on line? How did you mark the end of each length (Chaining pins, stake & hub)? Did you observe your tension and temperature readings every pull and what did the field notes look like? How fast could you chain (assuming no obstacles)? What kind of precision should I expect out of a chained distance (1:5000, 1:10,000)?

Bow Tie I think you must be very specific on your word "CHAIN" or "TAPE". There is a difference. I do not think that any body on this board used a "chain" to survey. A tape "YES".

JOHN NOLTON

paden cash, post: 384458, member: 20 wrote: Don't get picky on us. We all used 100' steel tapes. The affectionate term "chain" just seems to have stuck with us over the years.

I never heard anybody holler "TAPE!" when the end of the chain was fixing to arrive...;)

PS - the head of some our chaining nails were larger that 7mm!

paden cash I started surveying in 1962 and I used the command "Tape" as it is the correct terminology to use. I have used it right up till I retired in 1997.

JOHN NOLTON