There is a Register of Deeds that I know very well who believes that a survey creates a tract no matter whether or not any action follows by the landowners. It is her contention that a tract comes into existence simply because we have done the work to create a plat of survey. I prefer to believe that we as surveyors understand that our product is meaningless unless something is done because of what we have done. That is, for example, a deed is prepared, signed, accepted and recorded using the results of our work and the associated description. Perhaps a mortgage is filed based on our work product that could, conceivably, eventually become a true tract if a default occurs and the lender legally becomes the owner of that tract. If the loan is paid off as planned, the original parent tract is the valid description to use in future transactions because no separation ever occurred. I'm sure you can think of all sorts of variations on the theme.
I gave her an example from many years ago where I created four different, yet similar, plats of survey before the seller sold and the buyer bought based on that final plat. Effectively, what was happening was that they were negotiating until they finally agreed on a specific plan of action. The only survey monuments left from the first three iterations were those required as part of the last iteration. The early descriptions became meaningless. Thus, there was absolutely no need to file the first three plats of survey. It is her contention that the surveyor should record them all, so she can collect multiple filing fees to support her department.
Any ideas on how to better explain the real world to her?
[SARCASM]Stamp ""PRELIMINARY" on her forehead so she and everyone else can see every time she looks in the mirror and until the ink wears off..............[/SARCASM]
From the Texas General Rules and Procedures for surveyors........
?? 663.18.
Certification.
(c) Preliminary documents released from a land surveyor's control shall identify the purpose of the document, the land surveyor of record and the land surveyor's registration number, and the release date. Such preliminary documents shall not be signed or sealed and shall bear the following statement in the signature space or upon the face of the document:
"Preliminary, this document shall not be recorded for any purpose
and shall not be used or viewed or relied upon as a final survey document".
Preliminary documents released from the land surveyor's control
which include this text in place of the land surveyor's signature need not comply with the other minimum standards promulgated in this chapter.
That is why we do not sign what we have not done.
Holy Cow, post: 432385, member: 50 wrote: Any ideas on how to better explain the real world to her?
Survey her house lot and "subdivide" her property. Bring the map to her for filing.
Ooooooooooooooooooo, I like that one.
Holy Cow, post: 432385, member: 50 wrote: Any ideas on how to better explain the real world to her?
Find out where she lives and spend a few hours subdividing her land into about 30 parcels. If that don't turn the light bulb on - well.................
I had call yesterday from a realtor who was "helping" divide a family parcel with two houses, and 60 some acres of farm land. All was owned by the family trust with the parents in one house, and a daughter in the other house (the whole family is moving out of state). A month or more ago, I surveyed the parcel into two house parcels and the remainder farm land (no bureaucratic BS processes to got thru here, such as creating a subdivision, just a record of survey and 3 legal descriptions). Simple right?
The nice realtor lady called and wanted to know if I could record the legal description for house parcel 1. I said "Huh?"
She explained the lender for her buyer couldn't process the loan app without the legal being "recorded". Again, "Huh, are you sure you understand what they are asking?"
Reply was, yes absolutely, according to their policies, the legal description had to be recorded before the loan app could be processed.
Long story short, the lender wanted the seller to record a QC deed from themselves to themselves for whatever illogical, ridiculous, unexplainable reason. I politely sent her to the title company.
Brian Allen, post: 432403, member: 1333 wrote: I had call yesterday from a realtor who was "helping" divide a family parcel with two houses, and 60 some acres of farm land. All was owned by the family trust with the parents in one house, and a daughter in the other house (the whole family is moving out of state). A month or more ago, I surveyed the parcel into two house parcels and the remainder farm land (no bureaucratic BS processes to got thru here, such as creating a subdivision, just a record of survey and 3 legal descriptions). Simple right?
The nice realtor lady called and wanted to know if I could record the legal description for house parcel 1. I said "Huh?"
She explained the lender for her buyer couldn't process the loan app without the legal being "recorded". Again, "Huh, are you sure you understand what they are asking?"
Reply was, yes absolutely, according to their policies, the legal description had to be recorded before the loan app could be processed.Long story short, the lender wanted the seller to record a QC deed from themselves to themselves for whatever illogical, ridiculous, unexplainable reason. I politely sent her to the title company.
That is why subdivision plats are recorded in situations like that in many places. Then the loan could be for lot 1 of XXX subdivision. Recording a deed to themselves sounds a little strange and pointless, but the requirment to have a legal description of record makes sense. How is this normally handled in places that don't require subdivision plats?
Holy Cow, post: 432385, member: 50 wrote: There is a Register of Deeds that I know very well who believes that a survey creates a tract no matter whether or not any action follows by the landowners. It is her contention that a tract comes into existence simply because we have done the work to create a plat of survey. I prefer to believe that we as surveyors understand that our product is meaningless unless something is done because of what we have done. That is, for example, a deed is prepared, signed, accepted and recorded using the results of our work and the associated description. Perhaps a mortgage is filed based on our work product that could, conceivably, eventually become a true tract if a default occurs and the lender legally becomes the owner of that tract. If the loan is paid off as planned, the original parent tract is the valid description to use in future transactions because no separation ever occurred. I'm sure you can think of all sorts of variations on the theme.
I gave her an example from many years ago where I created four different, yet similar, plats of survey before the seller sold and the buyer bought based on that final plat. Effectively, what was happening was that they were negotiating until they finally agreed on a specific plan of action. The only survey monuments left from the first three iterations were those required as part of the last iteration. The early descriptions became meaningless. Thus, there was absolutely no need to file the first three plats of survey. It is her contention that the surveyor should record them all, so she can collect multiple filing fees to support her department.
Any ideas on how to better explain the real world to her?
Is she claiming a survey that is not signed by the landowner creates parcels? You don't need a deed, but you do need something from the land owner indicating they want to create the parcel shown on the survey. This is best achieved by a signed statement on the plat. This differentiates it from just a record of survey (or whatever you call it) that only shows what already exists and doesn't intend to create anything new.
Do you really sign surveys that show parcels that have not existed before without the land owner signing too? I wouldn't want to show a line on a survey that doesn't exist and might never exist. Is there more than one version with your signature floating around?
There is no requirement, here, for the land owner to sign a survey. Most use the description prepared for the new tract on a deed to transfer ownership or on a mortgage document to obtain a loan on just that new tract. It is that simple. We do not have the gigantic bureaucratic process as described by some on this site who live in high population areas.
Anyone can call me for a survey. It does not have to be the current landowner.
