I wanted to depict the wetlands on the survey, delineated by a professional soil scientist, hired by the client, and the client didn't.
I told him I felt I had to depict them, he said he'd get someone else to survey the property.
Oh well. I'll sleep tonight.
Sleep tight, Joe..
I remember the first time a client told me, "This is how we're going to show it...".
There's a greater art to turning work down than there is to digging it up.
Merry Christmas!
Way to stand your ground. If something would have come up, it would have been your license, and he wold have been the first one to point the finger.
Paden is right, it's a art to stand your ground and walk away when you know you are right.
Tell the next one to hire a soil scientist who is willing to declare there are no wetlands on the property.
Good for you. I hope your retainer covered the expenses and I hope that prospective buyers ask you about the property.
The last time a client "fired" us, my partner and I looked at each other and said "Thank you"! We were designing a dam and trying to do all the right things so that the client stayed out of jail and we didn't lose our licenses. Client wanted to do it his own way. He still does not have a dam.
I wanted to depict the wetlands on the survey, delineated by a professional soil scientist, hired by the client, and the client didn't.
Did he ask you to not show them? Or did he ask you to state that there were no wetlands?
I really don't understand.
Is it a state requirement to show them?
Is it a requirement by any organization that the survey is to be submitted to?
Why do you feel its necessary to even mention wetlands?
How do you guys feel about this scenario....just curious:
Get something from the client, who is paying you, in writing stating that he does not want the wetlands shown on the plan. Then put a note saying this map is not intended to depict wetlands, or something to that effect. Is there anything wrong with doing that? I'm just wondering what the opinions are.
Aren't Wetlands covered in ALTA Table A as item 19?
What other items would you demand to show if the owner did not check it on Table A?
<a href=""www.alta.org/forms/download.cfm?formID=338&type=word"
">MINIMUM STANDARD DETAIL REQUIREMENTS FOR ALTA/ACSM LAND TITLE SURVEYS - 2011
Excellent questions. He wanted to use the survey in order to subdivide the property. So, it would then be circulated to various town depts for review. In Connecticut, that includes the local inland wetland agency. They kinda wana see if there any wetlands on the property. I wont participate in fraud.
Do you now have an obligation to report this to the Wetland Board and warn them want is coming?
I agree with you.
It may be a fact that your client can choose the surveyor, the client can not control the content of your drawing and other paperwork.
I have made minor changes for clients as to the content of my drawing and paperwork to the extent of not having their evil mother in law's name to appear anywhere and other such menial text.
That does not mean that something that is something that clearly affects the property itself and may be something important to a lending institution, title company or potential buyer should be removed.
[sarcasm]Why is there a constant trail of supposedly educated professionals that try to get me to do something disgraceful just to satisfy their client's pocketbook and their ego.[/sarcasm]
B-)
No. I am not the 'wetland' police. I am no longer involved in the project. Besides He'll probably hire another 'soil scientist' that may not find annnnnny wetlands at all.
Dan...
I can do that yes. But I know the intent of the developer, and once I know that I can't 'Unknow' what has already been stated to me, both in a written report and verbally.
There have been plenty of times I have but on the map stating: Wetlands on this property, if any, are not depicted. Because I truly didn't ( I am not a soil scientist). But I felt in this case I couldn't do that.
Dan...
I think I missed that part in the previous posts....it appears the situation would become stickier than I originally thought.
Joe is this survey anything other than a boundary survey? If so then nothing I have to say applies. I am aware that state laws vary greatly but wetlands have absolutely nothing to do with title matters in any states that I know of.
It does appear to me however that if the CT wetland authority wants to know, they will, at some time require they be shown. Is now the time, or am I missing something here?
Is he selling the property and you feel an obligation to the buyer?
What fraud do yo feel the client is committing, and asking you to participate in, if they are not required to be shown at this time?
I'm kinda old school and was taught in my 1st surveying class that the clients confidentiality was second only to the surveyors responsibility to correctly depict the boundaries. In other words unless there is some legal reason requiring me to show them it isn't my responsibility to tell the world they exist.
If you feel some moral obligations then I applaud you for sticking to them.
I think Joe did the right thing. If I were a developer and my survey doesn't clearly depict the underlying property and it caused me some financial damage I would lawyer up. If in the process of doing his/her due diligence, the lawyer finds out from the soil scientist that the Surveyor was clearly aware of a condition that could have caused his client injury; there is no doubt that the Surveyor would become a defendant around these parts. At the very least he would have to show cause and I don't think "my client told me not to" would be good enough.
Just my opinion
Ralph
It is an ethics issue with Joe. He did the right thing. We took an oath to protect the public, which is what he was trying to do.
> I wanted to depict the wetlands on the survey, delineated by a professional soil scientist, hired by the client, and the client didn't.
>
>
> I told him I felt I had to depict them, he said he'd get someone else to survey the property.
>
> Oh well. I'll sleep tonight.
Four people with four bank accounts are sleeping tonight.
Joe's sleeping with a bank balance the same as it was yesterday. The professional soil scientist went to bed knowing his bank balance is a little more than it was yesterday. Surveyor B is sleeping soundly after selling a survey noting wetlands not depicted. The client is sawing wood dreaming of his next development.
...
Yes, Paul the intent of the survey is to develop the property. So it goers beyond a boundary survey.
