So here is the scenario.
Last spring I went out to a property and staked a property line on one side of a 15 acre tract. My client is a local real estate broker and somewhat tolerable even though he is a fast talking damned yankee.
All of the land in this area had been owned by a local landowner and he divided it up however he jolly well pleased & there were good original surveys done splitting this property up. 20 years later though the land has changed hands yet again & none of the new owners had taken the time or spent the money to have a survey performed. They just assumed and you know how that goes.
Now there was a convenience fence that the original landowner placed along the toe of a small hill that was +/-100 offline from the property line I was staking and followed the contour of the hill. It was obvious to even the dumbest dumbass that it was just a fence and not even close to the property line but my clients neighbors ??assumed? that is was the line and they were letting their useless horses and donkeys run loose on my clients property.
So I stake the line and the neighbors blow a gasket. Who didn??t see that coming?
The neighbors hire another well-respected local surveyor and he confirms that my staked line is correct and they get even madder.
They lawyer down (it is impossible to lawyer up) and immediately threaten my client. Not physical threats but threats nonetheless of bullcrap made up stuff from their foolish lawyer, he showed me the letters. It is never a good idea to lead with threats and intimidation.
So fast forward a few months and it got resolved and my client made a boat load of money from foolish neighbors who could have had everything for little cost and instead ended up spending a small fortune for 1 acre of land. And now they want nothing to do with their neighbor and former friend. He made a lot of bloody money for the neighbors obstinance.
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Now about 2 months ago ~ Same Client ~ different property line and different neighbor.
The client wanted me to find another property corner. So I go out there and setup on my control and stake out the corner he needed and just for good measure I find the corner at the other end of the line. These two points are about 350 feet apart and you can stand on one and see the other and no line stakes were needed as this area was inundated with water most of the year. That is all he wanted and they both checked well, and my job was done he wrote a personal check to me (not the company).
Yesterday (Friday) I get an email from him and he had hired a clearing crew to come in and clear some trees and (you guessed it) they cut about a dozen trees on the neighbor??s lot. They are mostly sweetgum trees and a few poplars in a water filled low area.
I did a covert drive by yesterday and it is a bloody damned mess and sure enough you can still see from one corner to the other. And true to form the neighbor has lawyered down. Now my client wants me to write him a receipt for surveying services performed and draft up a sketch of some sort so he can prove that he did his due diligence and had the corner points of the line ??surveyed?.
I am resisting any further involvement because I have concluded that my ??client? is a law suit magnet and decided I will do no further work for him.
ADVICE....THOUGHTS?
Was there a contract? Did the original scope of work include a plat to be signed and sealed??ÿ
If not, draftdup a new proposal and scope of work to be done as the survey is extra. You or someone esle is going to have to do extra work for that.
If he wants the current tree line to be shown, that is another item.
My thought is, you're just showing the facts as you see them.
My only question is... Did you ask him why he wanted that line defined?
This is also a question I have to get into the habit of. It allows us to foresee any future issues and educate our clients on what they need.
He wrote a personal check, so he has a receipt.
Just charge accordingly.
There are a number of questions that will drive your next step(s).
Does the State require any maps, documents or recordings when you recover or establish a boundary? Did you have a contract that said triggers forcing additional work cost extra? Is the company yours? Did you ask the purpose of the survey and provide the correct service?
Keep in mind none of these questions are designed to be accusatory. Simply pointing out things that may or may not come up depending on laws and standard of care in your State.
It may be that working for him is a gold mine, or it could be ulcers and migraines. Nobody can answer that but you. Before you start making your client pool smaller, think about changes in your business practice to better protect yourself (if needed). I suspect these times of plenty will end in the future and we will need all the clients we can get. Develop the practices now so they have no excuse to run off when the bubble pops...
That's why you should never go out and find a corner of stake a line without doing a full survey of the entire property. If that had been done originally, you and the client would have a record that they had done due diligence.
That's why you should never go out and find a corner of stake a line without doing a full survey of the entire property. If that had been done originally, you and the client would have a record that they had done due diligence.
Oh for heavens sake what a bunch of bs! Every job does not require a complete resurvey and to peddle that is crap.
The property and all the properties around it have good and valid surveys by respected surveyors and those surveys are all recorded.
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That's why you should never go out and find a corner of stake a line without doing a full survey of the entire property. If that had been done originally, you and the client would have a record that they had done due diligence.
Oh for heavens sake what a bunch of bs! Every job does not require a complete resurvey and to peddle that is crap.
The property and all the properties around it have good and valid surveys by respected surveyors and those surveys are all recorded.
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In Alabama very few surveys are recorded. Only subdivision plats and deeds.
That's why you should never go out and find a corner of stake a line without doing a full survey of the entire property. If that had been done originally, you and the client would have a record that they had done due diligence.
Oh for heavens sake what a bunch of bs! Every job does not require a complete resurvey and to peddle that is crap.
The property and all the properties around it have good and valid surveys by respected surveyors and those surveys are all recorded.
?ÿ
?ÿ
?ÿ
In Alabama very few surveys are recorded. Only subdivision plats and deeds.
That's why you should never go out and find a corner of stake a line without doing a full survey of the entire property. If that had been done originally, you and the client would have a record that they had done due diligence.
Oh for heavens sake what a bunch of bs! Every job does not require a complete resurvey and to peddle that is crap.
The property and all the properties around it have good and valid surveys by respected surveyors and those surveys are all recorded.
?ÿ
?ÿ
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In Alabama very few surveys are recorded. Only subdivision plats and deeds.
Seeing you posted this a week ago perhaps you have already moved ahead with your decision. If not, and you want to entertain another "possibility" of a resolution, here's what I would do:
You said you located the corner at the other end of the boundary. I would draw up a simple sketch of survey showing the boundary and describe the corners found at ends of that boundary. Show the bearing and distance you recorded for the line. Put the date of actual field work on the sketch. Show respective bearings and distance from record surveys as to the boundary, and show recording book and page info on your sketch. Write out a receipt.
And, no, I don't like to do extra work and not get paid. But, sometimes I make exceptions.
I would just bite the bullet and do the above without charge. The client would be free to make any kinds of assertions he wished to make as to what and/or why anything was done by you. You're just a surveyor going about doing the work of what a surveyor does...locating and mapping boundaries, not a mind reader.
In Alabama very few surveys are recorded. Only subdivision plats and deeds.
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Oh I am familiar with Alabama and I gotta say that I didn't think it was posible to have worse records and recording laws than Georgia but Alabama stepped up and has demonstrated otherwise. And research sucks in Alabama, damn it sucks. I guess they took it as a challenge.
I'm a solo surveyor.?ÿ Whenever I survey I also draft a plat whether the client asks for one or not.?ÿ If they don't ask for a plat or don't expect one, I don't charge for it.?ÿ I do the plat for two purposes: point 1, it protects the client; point 2 it protects the surveyor.?ÿ The plat is a paper record of your field work.?ÿ Do the plat of your line and keep your client.?ÿ
That's why you should never go out and find a corner of stake a line without doing a full survey of the entire property. If that had been done originally, you and the client would have a record that they had done due diligence.
Oh for heavens sake what a bunch of bs! Every job does not require a complete resurvey and to peddle that is crap.
The property and all the properties around it have good and valid surveys by respected surveyors and those surveys are all recorded.
?ÿ
?ÿ
No that is not BS, you are always saying how the other Surveyors in you area never charge enough, sounds like you may be doing the same thing, collecting a personal check, not getting?ÿ a company check, was this a under the table job? It does not matter how well respected the Surveyor who did the adjoining lot is their work still needs to be checked. No Surveyor is good enough to only find 2 corners on the same line and say yes the Boundary is good for the entire tract. I can understand if this was a tract you Surveyed in the last 6 months and he needed the corners reflagged, but you did not do that, you took a short cut, and not a company check, and now you need to go back and do the job the correct way, and make an invoice for the job and get it on the company books, also your insurance may not cover you for this.?ÿ?ÿ
Are you a professional survey or a corner finder? Because on this job what did you Survey?
That's why you should never go out and find a corner of stake a line without doing a full survey of the entire property. If that had been done originally, you and the client would have a record that they had done due diligence.
Oh for heavens sake what a bunch of bs! Every job does not require a complete resurvey and to peddle that is crap.
The property and all the properties around it have good and valid surveys by respected surveyors and those surveys are all recorded.
?ÿ
?ÿ
No that is not BS, you are always saying how the other Surveyors in you area never charge enough, sounds like you may be doing the same thing, collecting a personal check, not getting?ÿ a company check, was this a under the table job? It does not matter how well respected the Surveyor who did the adjoining lot is their work still needs to be checked. No Surveyor is good enough to only find 2 corners on the same line and say yes the Boundary is good for the entire tract. I can understand if this was a tract you Surveyed in the last 6 months and he needed the corners reflagged, but you did not do that, you took a short cut, and not a company check, and now you need to go back and do the job the correct way, and make an invoice for the job and get it on the company books, also your insurance may not cover you for this.?ÿ?ÿ
Are you a professional survey or a corner finder? Because on this job what did you Survey?
You obviously did not read a damned thing I wrote so I will give you a Cliff Notes summary. I had previously done a lot of surveying on his property and had enough of his property corners and adjoiners corners located so coming out again a few months after the first visit to locate another corner was a simple matter since I have nearly all of 4 tracts and probably 40 acres tied down.?ÿ
So, yes it is BS, every job does not requires a drafted survey especially if the client does not want one. And the other surveyors around here do give their work away. No it was not under the table, just pointing out that he paid me as opposed to the company.
We forget that most people have little to no concept about corner monuments, about straight lines between monuments, and how property lines are made out. None. This includes me at the age of 27 (after graduating from engineering college, which included survey classes) buying my first house. I started surveying at the age of 28.?ÿ?ÿ
Do not try to dummy up a pre-dated contract. Write your client a letter stating that on such and such dates you did this and that. By all means, make up a sketch map.?ÿ ?ÿ
I would be willing to continue to work for the client, but not on a piecemeal basis. I'd tell him that the last thing he needs is another cheap survey. He needs really comprehensive, well documented, well marked out job.?ÿ You proceed with the knowledge that he is a lawsuit magnet and conduct your business accordingly. Which means charging for the additional work needed to really CYA. If he is unwilling to pay for that, then I wouldn't work for him.
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It has been handled and all is taken care of...??????????????????????....hopefully.
That's why you should never go out and find a corner of stake a line without doing a full survey of the entire property. If that had been done originally, you and the client would have a record that they had done due diligence.
Oh for heavens sake what a bunch of bs! Every job does not require a complete resurvey and to peddle that is crap.
The property and all the properties around it have good and valid surveys by respected surveyors and those surveys are all recorded.
?ÿ
?ÿ
No that is not BS, you are always saying how the other Surveyors in you area never charge enough, sounds like you may be doing the same thing, collecting a personal check, not getting?ÿ a company check, was this a under the table job? It does not matter how well respected the Surveyor who did the adjoining lot is their work still needs to be checked. No Surveyor is good enough to only find 2 corners on the same line and say yes the Boundary is good for the entire tract. I can understand if this was a tract you Surveyed in the last 6 months and he needed the corners reflagged, but you did not do that, you took a short cut, and not a company check, and now you need to go back and do the job the correct way, and make an invoice for the job and get it on the company books, also your insurance may not cover you for this.?ÿ?ÿ
Are you a professional survey or a corner finder? Because on this job what did you Survey?
You obviously did not read a damned thing I wrote so I will give you a Cliff Notes summary. I had previously done a lot of surveying on his property and had enough of his property corners and adjoiners corners located so coming out again a few months after the first visit to locate another corner was a simple matter since I have nearly all of 4 tracts and probably 40 acres tied down.?ÿ
So, yes it is BS, every job does not requires a drafted survey especially if the client does not want one. And the other surveyors around here do give their work away. No it was not under the table, just pointing out that he paid me as opposed to the company.
No I did not read where you wrote you Surveyed the tract before, was it in this post?
And YES every job I do the client gets a sketch and a stamp.?ÿ
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Nevermind I see it now, different property line, I was thinking different property.?ÿ
Scott, I wish I lived in a world where the end product was always a final survey but that is not always necessary or affordable for some folks.
A common question from caller is that they are trying to have a fence run on one line or even the entire property in a typical subdivision lot. As much as I try to sell people on the "benefits" of a full survey it is a tough sell when budgets are tight. In those limited situations where tjeu insist thay they don't want a plat we (I) offer to do all the field work and stake the lines but I don't draft a plat for them.
They get what they want and I do enough to satisfy me. It is not ideal but it is what it is.?ÿ
I am conscious of the fact that some folks don't know and others?ÿmight even try to mislead me by omission so I try to be careful.
We get calls of "just needing a corner replaced". Well........it is bloody difficult to do that without a full survey. They may not want a plat or maybe they cannot afford it.?ÿ And as I don't survey for free BUT I still have to pay the bills.
The one I described in this thread was similar just with larger tracts and cost a fair bit more. All the required fieldwork was performed but try as I might the man paying the bills did not want another plat.?ÿ
Now I always draft up what I did for my records.
It is very tough sledding sometimes and as I'm from Georgia sledding is very tough to begin with in the best of situations. I do what I do until I perfect that voodoo curse.......I'm getting close.