P/C w/#### WTH?
IRF and IPF are not acceptable because they do not give the size or material. Why not just state "1/2" rebar" or "1" open pipe". Skip abbreviations whenever possible.;-)
I hope the sarcasm
Light went on.
I don't do that.
Nate
P/C w/#### WTH?
> IRF and IPF are not acceptable because they do not give the size or material. Why not just state "1/2" rebar" or "1" open pipe". Skip abbreviations whenever possible.;-)
Can we still use the "SWMBO" abbreviation? WTF, LOL...
I agree. We need to spell things like this out. Even a simple survey retracement plat may be a legal document; and IPF is not a commonly-known abbreviation, also if it is being used to determine your evaluation of the evidence, you should be as clear as practical as to what you are accepting and using, whether it be for a court, the client, or the surveyor trying to follow in your footsteps.
And don't use 65-word sentences. (note to self)
P/C w/#### WTH?
> I agree. We need to spell things like this out...
Wherever any abbreviation or symbol is used it should be referenced in a Legend.
P/C w/#### WTH?
> Wherever any abbreviation or symbol is used it should be referenced in a Legend.
Agreed. However, I think that, more often than not, almost every mark you find needs its own unique description. I like having a symbol for found monuments, set monuments and possibly found monuments used as control. And then a complete description of what was found.
Well, technically most of the info is there in your example. Compare the cap number with the number on the plat and one can see what is going on. I would prefer a more direct reference though. Set in 2004; or something like that. But that doesn't address whether you found it undisturbed now or not. I'm looking at one now that simply says "found" and other documents are needed to determine it was set by same surveyor. I don't think that is very honest. But, could be wrong. I probably have not done the best job of this in the past myself.
>
> Can a surveyor really "find" and "accept" his own monument?
As compared to Found and Not Accepted?
If you did not accept (your own marker)
would there be negligence?
> Well, technically most of the info is there in your example. Compare the cap number with the number on the plat and one can see what is going on. I would prefer a more direct reference though. Set in 2004; or something like that. But that doesn't address whether you found it undisturbed now or not. I'm looking at one now that simply says "found" and other documents are needed to determine it was set by same surveyor. I don't think that is very honest. But, could be wrong. I probably have not done the best job of this in the past myself.
Duane,
I agree with what you say. Here in Texas, I find that probably 90% of the surveyors will only state something to the effect of "xxx.xx feet to 1/2" iron rod set". Since we are not a recording state, the description that we are reading is almost always in the conveyance document, which doesn't tell me who set it or when. If the RPLS had taken a few more seconds to actually type something along the lines of "xxx.xx feet to a 1/2" iron rod with yellow plastic cap stamped "RPLS 1234" set (hereinafter "1/2" YCIRS" for corner", then we would know who set it and could connect it with the field evidence.
Why surveyors want to take short cuts and not take a few more seconds to easily identify their set monumentation is beyond me.
Imagine if the pioneer surveyors had written their descriptions like this:
"xxx.xx feet to a tree"
Good thing they gave the size and species of the tree to enable retracement.
What's the excuse for not being explicit in your description? Ever have pin cushions where you cannot connect any found object with the description because it was written without these monumentation details?
Then there's the "IPF" problem, which to some means "iron pin found", to others "iron pipe found". Why not spell it out or place a legend on your survey? Personally, I would never use nomenclature that could be confusing or construed as something else. It's either "1/2" IRF", for iron rod found, or "1" ODPF" for outside diameter pipe found. If you want to get really technical, it's a steel rod.
Say what you mean, mean what you say. Enable retracement for your fellow surveyors.
EDIT:
While I'm on my soap box, many surveyors will neglect to mention the color of the plastic cap (yes, there are other, more durable options) that they set. They don't see the need. Have you ever came across a pincushion corner with multiple objects, only to find that a lawn mover, or shovel has rendered the cap inscription illegible? If the cap color had been mentioned in the description, I could probably connect it to the description even though it's illegible.
:good:
considering that monuments are so highly regarded in the dignity of calls, it makes sense to describe the clearly.
"Why surveyors want to take short cuts and not take a few more seconds to easily identify their set monumentation is beyond me."
This has become the third most fundamental mystery of life to me...
We have "RPC"
> Well, technically most of the info is there in your example. Compare the cap number with the number on the plat and one can see what is going on. I would prefer a more direct reference though. Set in 2004; or something like that. But that doesn't address whether you found it undisturbed now or not. I'm looking at one now that simply says "found" and other documents are needed to determine it was set by same surveyor. I don't think that is very honest. But, could be wrong. I probably have not done the best job of this in the past myself.
Duane,
In Texas, you really can't compare the cap number with the registration number on the plat, because as I stated earlier, we are not a recording state and it is rare that you see the survey at all. You usually see a description that has been taken from the survey and placed as an exhibit in the conveyance document, with no identifying language in it.
Once I set it and move on to the next job, the next time I touch it, it's found.
> Once I set it and move on to the next job, the next time I touch it, it's found.
:good:
And if it appears to have been tampered with and no longer in its original position, it might be "not accepted".
We were doing a job once where we had to come back several times. The neighbor didn't like what was going on next door, and perhaps didn't like where the monument fell as well. They kept removing the monument. We ended up taking some "inconspicuous" ties to where it was, and put them in the field notes. (I don't remember, but I am thinking we also buried the monument deeper the next time as well).
I worked on a job another time where we tied in a rebar, and it didn't match the property corner location by multiple feet. (I was a new rodman, and waiting by the monument while the party chief and instrument man were over at the last point scratching their head and recalculating where the pin should be.) A guy came out of the adjoining house and asked me "well, how did I do?" I asked him what he meant, and he said he had found that pin laying down after some landscaping and that he drove it back in the ground where he thought it once was.
I think there might be hundreds of stories of similar experiences. If it was my pin, I would tie it in, and probably dig it out and set a new monument at the correct location and state what I did and why on my plat.
The last time I had someone jerk my corner, and had to go reset it, I took a 4' long No. 7 rebar, dug a hole about a half of a foot, and then set it until it was flush with the bottom of the hole. Took me a while, and the No. 7 looked like a No. 12 when I got done, but it didn't come out. 🙂
