Filing Section Corner Records

How much change in description/accessories are you finding when the record hasn't been updated.  If the information on record was sufficient, it doesn't seem to require any update.

There is a lot of noticeable change whether it be missing or destroyed witnesses, vague witness descriptions, or inconsistencies in the description of the monument itself. In my opinion I think that even if the record was sufficient it still needs to be updated and filed when used. I think it's important to leave a healthy database for future surveyors that is up to date, and reliable.    

I'm wondering why surveyors, at least in Michigan, feel there is no need to update LCRCs?

Because:

...unless the corner monument and its accessories are as described in an existing corner record filed under this act.

We have firms who blindly submit the same information multiple times without (very obviously) checking to see if the referenced items still exist.  They pride themselves on the number of reports they file.  The value of what is filed is very likely to be poor, especially when that corner of the bridge railing was replaced by an all-new bridge of different design a dozen years ago.

Some corners have not actually been recovered for many years, yet a dozen corner reports have been filed by various firms assuring us that what was said to have been there in 1979 is still there intact and perfectly correct.  How would one know that to be true if they didn't dig for it?

@bstrand In my experience, it's very rare to find all witnesses intact for a corner whose LCRC was updated 20 to 30 years ago, especially in rural areas.

For the record, I'm not saying that licensees should not be filing if they find a material discrepancy between existing record and recovered monuments.

However, for corner records, I don't see a need to go through the auditor. Forget filing fees, e-filing middlemen taking additional fees, and forget single format (PDF/paper).

There's already a statewide portal for licensees - allow them to digitally submit the same corner record (digitally signed of course) plus photos and a geodetic position if they have it. Push to AGOL webmap upon submittal for anyone to look at and query.

Think NGS Mark Recovery Forms, but at the state level and restricted to licensees (although I can see allowing for a non-licensees to submit a "non-official" recovery note).

Make it a statewide effort and a one-stop shop for all submittals so it's not so variable between counties, some of which do not allow e-filing and/or don't have online databases.

Anyone actually have such a thing in their state? I've yet to see it.

Many times I'll be doing research for a survey and note that many of the LCRC forms were last updated many, many years ago even though said corners have been found and used in registered surveys filed at later dates. I'm wondering why surveyors, at least in Michigan, feel there is no need to update LCRCs? 

Thoughts?

Why would you want corner cards filed if the information appears on a recorded survey? Seems redundant.

@dmyhill Indexed corner records are much easier to find than indexed surveys that contain that particular corner. Not to mention the corner record contains much more information on how to actually locate the monument. And if the corner needed to be replaced it would likely be done easier and more accurately using the corner record vs using a filed survey.

@rover83 Corner records impact real property. Depending on the laws in your State, you may need to have them recorded using the totalized County instrument number. Switching to a Statewide database would require a rewrite of at least a half-dozen sections of code, and it would disrupt over a century of case law. That doesn't mean there are places it wouldn't work.

@lurker it sounds like the surveys you are seeing are significantly lacking.

@aliquot I don't view them that way. The corner could be replaced based upon an indexed survey but I think it easier and likely more accurate to replace the corner based on the accessories shown on the monument record. Granted a record with only 2 accessories would not fit this concept but one with several accessories would.

The Kansas practice requires the surveyor to provide the Land Survey Reference Report (section corner data) to the Kansas Historical Society, Archives Department and the county or counties for which that specific corner is applicable (county line or county corner).

Hub Tack has made some sort of deal with the Kansas Historical Society to obtain all of those reports.  Thus, a surveyor can contact the County Office, the Historical Society or Hub Tack.  Hub Tack sells a service that allows full access for a certain cost per year.  So, someone working in the field can pull out their phone and access all of the corners that have had reports filed on them.

The inherent separation of the access to corner records from the full survey plats showing how they were found/set as part of the survey effort is a negative.  Meanwhile, anyone in the world can access the reports and assume they understand the thinking applied by the surveyor who placed the monument by paying Hub Tack an annual service fee.  Walking the the steps of the earlier surveyor is bypassed.

Another negative is that there may be pincushioned records filed with no mention of the pincushion, either out of ignorance or pride.  Sort of the "Pipe vs Stone" story from the earlier days of this site.

But, the surveyor now sees far less reason to visit the County offices where the historic survey records are maintained.  This is a huge negative.

@bstrand In my experience, it's very rare to find all witnesses intact for a corner whose LCRC was updated 20 to 30 years ago, especially in rural areas.

Oh in that case I've heard a couple different reasons.  The surveyor is lazy/doesn't care, or they don't think it's their client's responsibility to pay to update the record for everyone in that section or quarter section.