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Feet or Foot

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not-my-real-name
(@not-my-real-name)
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I read this article that was shared by NSPS. If we had the U.S. Survey Foot in 1893 it seems to me the problem started in the 1950s when the International Foot came about. Why was there a need to change the already established way of thinking?

?ÿ

https://tucson.com/news/local/arizona-surveyor-thinks-america-can-stand-on-one-foot/article_0d82b74f-bb9e-57e2-a1e6-214d9f342c9f.html?fbclid=IwAR0roeV0ffnyIqL2euBkMgHsRfwmMCUOPrhbC0938vAmzawrHi7trnZovgY

 
Posted : September 8, 2020 10:26 am
not-my-real-name
(@not-my-real-name)
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Next, why not have contractors abandon the fractional feet measurements in favor of decimal feet?

No matter how "simple" you make something there will always be those who get confused.

Once a contractor borrowed my tape to make a measurement. Then I heard him exclaim to his partner, "they only have ten inches in every foot".

Another took my cut marks of 1.5 feet to mean one foot and five inches. I said "No, it mean half a foot". To which he replied, "One half a foot is five inches, right?"

He may have been joking. I don't know.

 
Posted : September 8, 2020 10:45 am
(@spmpls)
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Might I suggest spending some time watching these webinars on the topic.

https://www.ngs.noaa.gov/web/science_edu/webinar_series/fate-of-us-survey-foot.shtml

https://www.ngs.noaa.gov/web/science_edu/webinar_series/ending-us-survey-foot.shtml

Perhaps they will answer some of your questions or help you understand the "why." When the first one was advertised, I contacted Michael Dennis to ask if there was an error in the title, because 40 of the 48 states with a codified State Plane Coordinate System have defined the US Survey Foot as their standard. He asked me to hold judgment until afterwards.

There are A LOT of red herring arguments being thrown around about how this change will significant harm the ability to determine boundaries in the states being forced to change and other such nonsense. In my opinion, this is Exhibit "A"

https://www.pobonline.com/articles/101995-us-survey-foot-vs-international-foot-standard

Many land surveyors love the idea of using Low Distortion Projections. Oh my, boundaries are sure to be destroyed as the result of such non-traditional, black box practices. Because, after all, coordinates and distances are at the top of the list of the order of importance of conflicting elements for boundary determination and we can all repeatedly measure more accurately than 0.02' in a mile.

Where is that darn sarcasm button when you need it?

?ÿ

 
Posted : September 8, 2020 11:27 am
(@rover83)
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Posted by: @not-my-real-name

Why was there a need to change the already established way of thinking?

In a single word, and in all seriousness...progress. For the same reason that we will soon move to an international reference frame as the basis for the NSRS, and why states don't have multiple state plane projection parameters for a particular area. Standardization reduces confusion, and (especially nowadays) makes data-sharing and resultant data-driven decisions much easier. There is always pain during transitions to a new standard, but "that's the way we've always done it" is not a valid argument against change. It was that attitude that put surveyors behind the curve on GIS, scanning, and UAS.

?ÿ

Posted by: @not-my-real-name

Next, why not have contractors abandon the fractional feet measurements in favor of decimal feet?

No matter how "simple" you make something there will always be those who get confused.

Contractors aren't licensed professionals, and they are technically measuring in international feet anyways, so technically they are already more adaptable than we are.

Presumably we as licensed professionals will be able to handle the "switch", as the rest of the country already has. And we're supposed to be the measurement and geospatial experts anyways. If a surveyor truly gets confused by this, they probably aren't cut out for surveying.

It's strange that the few articles I have seen on this subject seem to gloss over the fact (well documented in Dr. Dennis' webinar of last year) that he is not some loose cannon in the government trying to throw a wrench into the very organization he works for, but making an effort to finish a standardization process that was mandated more than sixty years ago but ignored ever since.

 
Posted : September 8, 2020 11:30 am
(@ken-salzmann)
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@not-my-real-name

I am always amazed that so many contractors cannot fathom decimal feet, but they seem to have no problems adding $5.50 and $1.87 ....

Ken

 
Posted : September 8, 2020 11:33 am
 jaro
(@jaro)
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I would venture a wild guess that there is a reason the standardization process has been ignored for more than 60 years.

 
Posted : September 8, 2020 1:29 pm
(@mightymoe)
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pftttt,,,,,,,not really an issue with me, I'm not about to change anytime soon, all my data is US feet and I will stay with it even after it's mandated to change. The main thing is if I say State Coordinate System, NAD 1983, East Zone, I'll now have to say US Survey feet instead of not stating it since it's mandated as US feet now.?ÿ

 
Posted : September 8, 2020 1:39 pm
(@bill93)
Posts: 9834
 

Basically all that is happening that matters in practice is that the 2022 SPC and other projections (defined in meters) if converted to feet will be converted to iFt.

Everything old will stay what it was.

Every distance you measure on your survey project will have the distinction between types of feet lost in the measurement noise. You can't measure to 2 ppm with an EDM and won't often have GNSS points far enough apart to care.

 
Posted : September 8, 2020 3:01 pm
(@dave-karoly)
Posts: 12001
 

I think it's a solution in search of a problem.

 
Posted : September 8, 2020 3:04 pm