They can refuse to file on the margin here (1" minimum and it is in the Statute). Any Surveyor who doesn't meet the minimum only has himself to blame.
I did up a bunch of exhibits to go with descriptions I wrote. I actually did the obvious and called the recorder and asked what the minimum margins are on a letter sized page. The lady was very appreciative that someone actually asked first.
Larry, while reading your post I am 99.9% certain what county you are referring to. If so the gentleman that came from the back is the register of deeds himself. You more than likely interrupted his game of solitaire. I have witness this myself on more than one occasion. The ladies that work in that office are clueless and are lazy. I once heard them tell another surveyor that he should include their certificate in his drawing because putting a sticker on the map was to much work. Also witnessed one of them (while two others watched) yelling across the room at 80 yr man and woman how to unbind the books so they could make a copy. This is good ole local government at its finest. To bad it’s the county I do most of my work in. Have a great weekend.
I used to do a lot of work in Wa State. We had a couple counties and cities that would make requirements that weren't on there books. Long story short you kissed ***, or they would deny your project. They were taken to court from time to time, and lost. They continued the practice, because it was only tax dollars and they had an agenda. Bainbridge Island, and Pierce County were two of the worse offenders.
Yes, it was probably the tuxedo
Excellent point, Kent.
In California, what the Recorder can record is codified §27201 et seq. of the California Government Code.
Yes, it was probably the tuxedo
Do tux's come in camouflage? Might be great field clothes.
>$1700
This guy has the same [msg=150405]corruption[/msg] problem.
"then the plat shall have, in addition to said surveyor's certificate, a certification of approval, or no approval required, as may be required by local ordinance from the appropriate government authority before the plat is presented for recordation."
In this county , the certification for "no approval required" is easily obtained by an, on the spot, walk-in visit to the planning dept. and rubber stamp, on the way to the review officer and register of deeds (as long as the county official is actually in his office, and not at some meeting about how to serve the public)
Good for You!!
Hopefully you just made it simpler for your colleagues to record a lawfully recordable document in the future.
Fortunately it seems to have been easily handled once the person in charge of the office bothered to get involved.
In a neighboring county, the clerk's office had a sign on the plat cabinets that stated ALL PLATS MUST HAVE PLANNING APPROVAL. They were even claiming a re-tracement of an existing boundary required approval if you wanted to place it in the public record. They put that up because they were told to do so by the planning office and they never bothered to even check if that was a valid requirement.
In recent times, there have been a number of Kentucky cases and state attorney general opinions addressing this and similar issues.
A fellow surveyor who works in that county went to record a farm division that is specifically exempted by statute from planning review and approval. The clerk's office would not record it without the planning approval. That surveyor spent a great deal of time speaking with the clerk, the planning administrator, and the county attorney and provided them all of the pertinent cases and opinions to no avail.
The county attorney actually told him if he didn't like it to sue the county.
He finally ended up going to the next fiscal court meeting and providing copies of the statutes and opinions to the county judge executive and all of the magistrates and simple asked that they check into it.
Within a few days, he had a call from the county attorney's assistant telling him that the sign had been removed and he should go record his plat.
This is the same planning commission that irked me so much that I lost my composure and flat out told them that they were nothing more than criminals violating the property rights of the citizens of their county. Not surprising to me that some of the very actions that I pointed out were criminal have been the exact actions that in recent years are coming up to be a violation of the Kentucky constitution.
> They can refuse to file on the margin here (1" minimum and it is in the Statute). Any Surveyor who doesn't meet the minimum only has himself to blame.
I'm not aurguing that there is a minimum or that it's in the statute (it is in Washington too) I'm asking who makes the measurment, with what tool and whether it is legitimate or not.
BTW, I agree with you, it's a bad day when a surveyor can't measure 4 hundredths(1/2")
😉
Radar
Larry,
Many times the Planning Department also acts as the Review Officer. On exempt plats they are required certify the plat complies with all statutory requirements for recording, such as surveyors certifications, border widths, north arrow, scale bar, etc..
Also, being exempt from subdivision ordinances does not make them exempt from Zoning Ordinances, so they also have to be reviewed for zoning compliance. There is usually an exempt certification that both the property owners and planners sign off.
According to §47-30.2 all plat recorded require the review officer's certification, with a few exceptions. None of the exceptions have to do with an exempt plat.
§ 47-30.2. Review Officer.
(a) The board of commissioners of each county shall, by resolution, designate by name one or more persons experienced in mapping or land records management as a Review Officer to review each map and plat required to be submitted for review before the map or plat is presented to the register of deeds for recording. Each person designated a Review Officer shall, if reasonably feasible, be certified as a property mapper pursuant to G.S. 147-54.4. A resolution designating a Review Officer shall be recorded in the county registry and indexed on the grantor index in the name of the Review Officer.
(b) The Review Officer shall review expeditiously each map or plat required to be submitted to the Officer before the map or plat is presented to the register of deeds for recording. The Review Officer shall certify the map or plat if it complies with all statutory requirements for recording.
Except as provided in subsection (c) of this section, the register of deeds shall not accept for recording any map or plat required to be submitted to the Review Officer unless the map or plat has the certification of the Review Officer affixed to it. A certification shall be in substantially the following form:
State of North Carolina
County of
I, ____________, Review Officer of __________ County, certify that the map or plat to which this certification is affixed meets all statutory requirements for recording.
_______________________________
Review Officer
Date _________________________
(c) A map or plat must be presented to the Review Officer unless one or more of the following conditions are applicable:
(1) The certificate required by G.S. 47-30(f)(11) shows that the map or plat is a survey within the meaning of G.S. 47-30(f)(11)b. or c.
(2) The map or plat is exempt from the requirements of G.S. 47-30 pursuant to G.S. 47-30(j) or (l).
(3) The map is an attachment that is being recorded pursuant to G.S. 47-30(n). (1997-309, s. 3; 1998-228, s. 13.)
> According to §47-30.2 all plat recorded require the review officer's certification, with a few exceptions. None of the exceptions have to do with an exempt plat.
>
> (c) A map or plat must be presented to the Review Officer unless one or more of the following conditions are applicable:
> (1) The certificate required by G.S. 47-30(f)(11) shows that the map or plat is a survey within the meaning of G.S. 47-30(f)(11)b. or c.
> (2) The map or plat is exempt from the requirements of G.S. 47-30 pursuant to G.S. 47-30(j) or (l).
> (3) The map is an attachment that is being recorded pursuant to G.S. 47-30(n). (1997-309, s. 3; 1998-228, s. 13.)
My plat did contain the certification per 47-30(f)11c.
That is exactly why I wanted it recorded without any further review or approval. Because state law says that is how it is to be done.
Now for those who think this is all a bunch of silly crap and everyone would be better off if I would go ahead and do "what everybody else does", let me share a brief story.
A few years ago I needed to record a plat that was exempt from the planning requirements but it did not fall within one of the meanings in GS 47-30. This meant our review officer (also the director of planning) had to sign the plat saying that he didn't have to sign the plat. (Yes I know it is really stupid that the locals have a requirement that they sign things saying that they don't have to sign but that is another story.)
The planner refused to sign the plat until I added a note that the property shown was not approved for a well or septic tank. I told him I had no intention of putting that note on my plat as it was not true. The property owner was not required to seek approval for a well or septic tank and was not inclined to pay $750 to get a permit he neither needed or wanted.
For those wondering why the planner would require such a note, the Chairman of the planning board worked at the health department and got to pocket a portion of the money from every permit application. So it seemed natural that he wanted everyone to have a permit even when there was nothing in the local rules mentioning a permit.
Every month from April through October I would ask and he would refuse. Finally he agreed that he would approve when I told him I would add a note that indicated that no permit had been applied for as it was not required. (The client had no plans to build before the permit would expire so it would have been a total waste of money.)
So for the go along to get along crowd, I ask, at what point do you draw the line? I will insist that we abide by the statutes and ask nothing more from the authorities.
Larry P
Gotta love island time.
I spent 5 months in St. Croix, had to deal with one petty tyrant in this department or that the entire time.
Don't get me started about local labor requirements and the fact there is nobody local to the island that gives a fat rat's fanny about a regular job.
Larry,
Thanks for correcting me. I read through your initial post too quickly and mistakenly thought you were talking about an exempt subdivision. I agree with you.
I had an experience with a Planning Administrator that wanted to inspect the existing septic systems in an exempt subdivision. I explained to him that he had no authority to do so, since it was exempt. Realizing I was right, he challenged the location of a dwelling in relationship to an existing property line on my map. It was encroaching into the setback line. He wanted me to move the existing property line! I explained to him that the house was over 100 years old and the property line was there before he was born and I just can't move a property line because he wants me to. So, he got the Zoning Administrator whom advised my that if I recorded the plat, as is, he would cite the dwelling as 'non-conforming'. I could not believe what I was hearing, so I said "Good for you!"
I walked down the hall to the Town Manager's Office and explained to him about my experience with his planning and zoning idiots. We all had a short meeting and the plat was approved. I could hear the Town Manager reading them the riot act when I left. Sometimes the aggravation is worth it.:-D
(The County Ordinance required the planner's certification that the subdivision plat was exempt.)
The County Surveyor is supposed to check it on the maps.
I take the 1" to be to the center of the heavy border and no one has ever refused to file on that.
> The County Surveyor is supposed to check it on the maps.
>
> I take the 1" to be to the center of the heavy border and no one has ever refused to file on that.
What is the margin of error?
djames doesn't tell us how much short he is, from 1/2", but it can't be much. Who gets to say that even a smidgen is too much?
BTW, my margins are always a scintilla more, just in case...;-)
