Dip Needle

Try this:

Aqua Surveying Instruments

Yep. Go one and it was more like 45 years ago.

Step #1: Use your magic yellow finger (metal detector) to find a bar you know is there.

Step #2: Place the dip needle near the ground and slowly move towards the bar.

Step #3: Have a celebratory beer for proving the dip needle will find a bar.

Step #4: Put said dip needle on display and henceforth declare in the style of Mark Twain how you used it to find survey bar(s).

It ain't nothing but a crude compass that is affected by LOCAL ATTRACTION, as in a metal object in the ground.
They are just a step up from nothing or maybe a dowsing rod. Oh boy lets get that dowsing controversy going again.

Dowsing - there is no controversy. It works.

My family has a old sprinkler system that is used to irrigate several acres of lawn. The under ground iron pipes were installed over the course of several decades.
Nobody knows where the pipes go, other than they work when you turn the valve on.

There was one sprinkler that we never could get to work. I tried to run a heavy wire up the pipe to un-plug it, but after 50' or so there was too much friction to advance the wire.

We called in my father who is good with dowsing rods. He went over to the fence and grabbed some bailing wire, and straightened it out into some rods.

He spent about 10 minutes making kick marks in the grass, which began to line up.

He marks a spot on the lawn and tells me to dig here and that I would find an elbow that was plugged with rust scale. We dig a 6" Dia. hole about 12" deep and sure enough..there was an elbow centered in the hole. I beat on that elbow until the rust scale broke loose and came shooting out the sprinkler stand pipe. We filled the hole and put the grass plug back in and thanked him for an easy fix.

Things like that really make you question our understanding of science. Is it magical powers? If not - then prove to me why it isn't.

Dip Needles, dowsing & hockey pucks

No controversy about dowsing with me. It does work. I keep a couple bent coat hangers, with some McDonald straws in my truck for the once or twice a year I think I want to use them.

Now when it comes to the proverbial dip needle.... well.. we tended to use them as a hockey puck like projectile on the ice during that goof off time all survey crews encounter. But only after we lost the other proverbial 25' roll up cloth tape in the brown plastic case. They were much better for pucks, and you could actually lift them like a real hockey puck. A lath with a 12" hub attached with lots of flagging made for a great stick, assuming of course you couldn't find the perfect branch on a tree to cut off.

if dowsing works, it should be easy enough to prove experimentally, yet no one has done it.

I know there is a 1 million dollar prize offered for a particular dowsing setup yet no one has claimed the prize.

Don't Sell The Dip Needle Short

> It ain't nothing but a crude compass that is affected by LOCAL ATTRACTION, as in a metal object in the ground.
> They are just a step up from nothing or maybe a dowsing rod. Oh boy lets get that dowsing controversy going again.

Don’t sell the dip needle short when it comes to locating monuments. When I first started surveying in 1954, working for the City of Sheridan Engineering Department, that was all that was available to use. We never had one in the Department, but if we were lucky and they weren’t using theirs, we would borrow one from the Water Superintendent or one of his personnel that used them. These were the old brass circle ones with a telescoping rod handle. Anyhow, we kept up what they called a valve book that diagramed all water main valves, fittings, sizes, type of valve, etc.

The assistant City Engineer/Surveyor and I went out one day and he showed me some valves and what to do to make up the diagram and location. One of the areas we went to was a graveled street or roadway about 400’ more or less between cross streets. He said that there was a valve in the borrow ditch somewhere in between the two cross streets and got the dip needle out and did a hurried look see to maybe find it, but never had any success and we went back to the City Hall.

In the meantime he had ordered a new Agua Locator for our use, which by the way, almost took an act of Congress to do. One day after it came in, he said, “Why don’t you take the new Agua out and locate that valve.” So I went out to the street and started walking the borrow ditch from the South end toward the North end. It was a slow process, zigzagging across the borrow ditch, up the back slope and edge of the roadway and trying to keep the unit pointing North and swinging to and fro.

Eventually I got a slight dip on the needle, so I stopped and let the box do its’ thing. Upon checking a little further down the ditch, that was the only spot that I got any kind of reading. Well, then it was pick and shovel and digging bar time. This was a job in itself digging, as there were all kinds and sizes of rox, pit run gravel and 8 to 10 inch boulders. But the more I excavated the stronger the dip on the needle was. At about 4.5’+ I hit the valve box. Man, I was in hog heaven as all the other searchers never had any luck finding the valve and here was me, a more or less green kid in this business finding it. Since then I swore by the Agua Locator until the Schonstedt came out. When I got back to the office, the Assistant City Engineer/Surveyor asked, “Did you find it?” and had a little grin on his face like I would say, “No, I never had any luck”. When I told him yep and had it dug out and located, he didn’t believe me at first. He then told me to go get the Water Department Superintendent and take him out to show him where it was so they could raise the valve box.

Don't Sell The Dip Needle Short

Dip needles do work. I have seen experienced users, having a ball with them. I am not that good at it. But, until you develop the skills to use one, don't sell them short.

N

Don't Sell The Dip Needle Short

Dip needles do work, sometimes rather well. But there is a big difference between a dip needle and a Schonstedt. With a "modern" pin-finder you can walk along in the general area while you sweep left to right and listen for the 'sing'. I don't have enough time left on earth to find a pin like that with a needle.

The best friend a dip needle has is a soft tape. You really need to confine your search area down to about a 3' diameter circle...then start dipping. I suggest everyone that works in the field daily give one a try. You'll only be a keener surveyor for it.

Once you've gotten proficient at dipping you will realize why we use to set 7/8" drift pins instead of rebar. In some cases size does matter. 😉

Signed:

Been-there-done-that-got-the-T-shirt-still-have-at-least-three-dip-needles-laying-around.

Don't Sell The Dip Needle Short

And, there are dips, out there, without any needle! (Wink)

N

Don't Sell The Dip Needle Short

Yes, dip needles do work. Not like modern locators but OK for the time period.

Dowsing is bunk. There was scientific double-blind test done in Australia that was features on PBS a few years ago. And that million dollar offer has not been taken yet.

Don't Sell The Dip Needle Short

How does the dip needle compare to the Schonstedt looking for a pin along a metal fence?

Don't Sell The Dip Needle Short

I think both are equally affected by the fence.

Don't Sell The Dip Needle Short

NOPE
Dip Needles work much better against a fence, the metal has to be "under" it, the yellow stick just needs to be close to the sensor.
At least in my experience.

Don't Sell The Dip Needle Short

Not only does a Dip Needle work, but if it is broke you can go to K-mart and buy the cheapest compass they have. One with no fluid in it. The old guy I worked for in my teens did this. He would slide that cheap compass back and forth on the ground and the iron rods would pull the needle away from north. Don't believe? try it.

other ways to 'dip' a pin...

I worked with a fella from down South years ago. He didn't care for dip needles.

His answer was a mason jar with a strong bar magnet laying flat in the bottom of the jar. The jar was suspended with a "strang" through a hole in the center of the lid. As you carefully hovered the jar close to the ground in a suspect area, the jar (which was generally slowly rotating on the string) would change its rotation as it passed over a ferrous object.

It does work, I've observed it several times. I don't know how well or consistent, but it worked. Usually if we were close enough to use the jar we would just rip up two or three square feet of dirt with a grubbing hoe and shovel to see if there was anything there. We could get that done before he had his stupid jar out of the truck.

Back in the '70s we used a Dip Needle exclusively. They were a powerful tool. They came in a leather case with a leather strap.
One day I was using it to find a corner and nearby was a very large Pit Bull (with puppies) tied with a very large chain to a very large iron post. I was just out of the beast so I continued to search while pushing the curios puppies out of the way.

The needle flipped, so I set it aside as I began to probe the ground with my machete. After finding the corner, I turned and found that one of the puppies had taken my Dip Needle by the leather strap and delivered it to their mother.

Scratch one Dip Needle. (I retrieved it later after the pet's owner arrived.)

Don't Sell The Dip Needle Short

"Dowsing is bunk. There was scientific double-blind test done in Australia that was features on PBS a few years ago. And that million dollar offer has not been taken yet."

Either way, that "bunk" saved me a bunch of digging and allowed me to repair the sprinkler quickly. I really was amazed to see an elbow in the center of a 6" dia. hole in the middle of a couple acre lawn.

Weird stuff that cannot be explained or apparently proved.