Better measuring
The pipe was set in the late 50's and supposed to be on the northern R/W line of US 11/460. The nearest concrete highway monuments are about 300' west and 800' east. I found 6 R/W monuments and got 4 to work within 0.08'
I don't have to explain anything.
Keith
Better measuring
The surveyor has
mistaken entirely the point to which his attention should have
been directed. The question is not how an entirely accurate
survey would locate these lots, but how the original stakes
located them. No rule in real estate law is more inflexible
than that monuments control course and distance,--a rule
that we have frequent occasion to apply in the case of public
surveys, where its propriety, justice and necessity are never
questioned. But its application in other cases is quite as
proper, and quite as necessary to the protection of
substantial rights. The city surveyor should, therefore, have
directed his attention to the ascertainment of the actual
location of the original landmarks (60 yr.old pipe). . . and if those were
discovered, they must govern. Cooley
Carl
> #7: I guess I was a friggin' 'tard to post this. Won't EVER make that mistake again.
Hahahah...Hey, roasting is fun, being roasted is better Carl.
That cracked me up Carl LOL
Carl
Don't feel like an outcast, it is a good topic of discussion.
What type of R/W monuments did you find, 4x4 concrete standing up 1.4ft, maybe chipped or possibly leaning or were they flush with stamped brass cap.
I remember highway crews that had their patent way of setting R/W monuments dead on at the leading outside corner of the monument and others being dead center or some other place on the monument. Around here our oldest monuments are 4x4 post that may actually be the monument but are mostly the guard for a 3/4in rod within a foot of that post. Others are an 8in round post with a nail dead center and the actual monument being a 3/4in rod within a foot away.
Have rarely found a series of monuments along an older R/W being dead on where the notes made relation for them to actually be. Usually pretty close or terribly off, like 50ft to 150ft.
A few months ago I did a project to cut 14ac out of 120 and a half dozen monuments were on the R/W yet not at the station where they were called to be. Some fell between transition stations.
Many times I will set a 60d nail at a true location near an old monument or dead on near the base of something leaning, yet call for the old monument.
Your call all the way.....
Keith
I don't know how this thread drifted off in the direction of bearing and distance v. found monuments. Carl used monuments to define the right of way line, not bearings and distances.
This is what I do not get...
:good: Carl says these are 6" x 6" conc mons and you hold in the center of the mon at the back unless at an intersection.
I am assuming that this is 'standard practice' on how surveyors in Carls area locate these things amd not some specific law stating how to locate the 6" x 6".
So we have a monument width that is 6" wide, and Carls rebar is centered..
Well, the pipes inside the 6" x 6" width path these monuments trace..and all of them, the 6" x 6" mons, work since Carl said that his variation was 0.08'.
So..0.5' / 2 = 0.25'. Pipe is 0.14' from Carls center. Error is 0.08'+/-.
0.14' + 0.08' = 0.22' - 0.25' = 0.03' is the amount of freeboard from the center of the pipe to the R/W line.
BTW...Lines are 6" wide in Carls neck of the woods.
So, all that has to be done is hacksaw off the offending part of the pipe that is outside the edge of the R/W.
Simple:good::{: :hi5:
Better measuring
> The city surveyor should, therefore, have
> directed his attention to the ascertainment of the actual
> location of the original landmarks (60 yr.old pipe). . . and if those were
> discovered, they must govern. Cooley
And the detail that is being forgotten is that the pipe is NOT an original landmark of the highway boundary. It is only an original landmark of the side line between the lots that were surveyed later. Next case.
Better measuring
A 60 year old iron pipe can gain all the dignity of the original in law. next case.
Better measuring
> A 60 year old iron pipe can gain all the dignity of the original in law. next case.
Usually not when one of the landowners isn't party to its placement or acts based upon it, as would be the case along just about any state highway. In any event, it will never by an original monument on the highway line as contemplated by Cooley. The court finds for the State. Next case.
Better measuring
And as long as that type of thinking controls land surveying the pincushion will remain alive and well and the profession grows ever closer to being irrelevant.
Carl
Court cases have found the ROW widths contained deficiencies
read Skelton
Carl
Skelton has statements on ROW not being exact distances?
Keith
Better measuring
AMEN
Hey now,
I hadn't thought about that solution!
Take a hacksaw to these damnable pincushion monuments and at least part of the monument can be accepted as on the line!!:-)
Keith
Hey now,
Yeah. Hey now, Paul, what are you trying to do, use math? I didn't think we're supposed to use math in surveying anymore.;-)
Can't we just have a sing along?
Change gambler to surveyor when you sing
[flash width=480 height=385] http://www.youtube.com/v/kNnrTNFWcsg?fs=1&hl=en_US [/flash]
Well Steve..
> Yeah. Hey now, Paul, what are you trying to do, use math? I didn't think we're supposed to use math in surveying anymore.;-)
It's like this.
I knew that math was WAY over my head , so I called Kent. He told me I had a choice.
1. He would tell me what Cadd program he uses
.. or..
2. He would research the math dilemma I was in and provide an answer.
Being the kindly hearted surveyor I am and wanting to be a small part of Kents solution to this whole mess, I chose 2.
Kent said he had some research papers in some dusty old filing cabinet, so I patiently waited on the phone. About 10 mins passed and Kent provided the answer. He also told me I would be getting an invoice for his services.
I burned some incense, said a few chants and then hung up.
Complaining about the law, Norm
> And as long as that type of thinking controls land surveying the pincushion will remain alive and well and the profession grows ever closer to being irrelevant.
Huh? So you think that a system that actually depends upon surveyors to perform their function properly will render the profession irrelevant? :> No, in a system in which boundaries actually matter, so do surveyors. What a surprise, eh?
The law
Kent,
Lets see some of that law that you claim is settled law.
Hint.............up on top.
Keith
The law
> Lets see some of that law that you claim is settled law.
Yes, the fact that you're in doubt about such elementary stuff as the meaning of conveyances and whether surveying mistakes automatically transfer title is what reminds us how much fun riding a desk at the BLM must have been for all concerned. Basically, that's what you're asking. You're asking "why is a deed binding as a conveyance of interest?" You're also asking "why can't a third party make a deed mean whatever they want it to?"
