JB
Carl was not the first surveyor to establish either one of the lines that he retraced. The State's surveyor established the right of way line and the surveyor who set the pipe established the private property line. Carl honored both.
Are you saying that I have the authority to enlarge or diminish State highways by driving a pipe? I wouldn't want to be in the position of explaining to the State that their highway is not defined by their right of way monuments. There are some highways around here that I wish were wider, should I go take care of that with some rebars?
I know you hate the question of how far is too far but just for today consider a situation where the pipe extends more significantly into the highway right of way defined by the highway monuments. Would you advise the property owner to place substantial improvements beyond that line based on a pipe set by a private surveyor? Is the State required to honor whatever piece of iron happens to show up?
I can see in this case where we're talking about 0.14' and the pipe seems to have been set with reasonable care, there probably would not be a big issue if improvements were placed in conformance with the pipe, but humor me for a second and assume it's 1.40 feet instead.
Personally, I get tired of the argument that pincushioning belittles our profession or makes us look silly. What seems sillier to me is telling a client "Yesirree, that's pipe's right on the line" when we know it isn't.
Steve
Obviously, JB can answer for himself, but your statement, "Personally, I get tired of the argument that pincushioning belittles our profession or makes us look silly. What seems sillier to me is telling a client "Yesirree, that's pipe's right on the line" when we know it isn't." is not how I would look at it.
I would see the utter disbelief look on the landowner's face, if I told him/her that the pipe is the width of my finger away from the TRUE line. That is what makes us look silly.
Keith
Keith
I never knew you had such fat fingers.;-)
Some landowners might think it's silly, some of us work in more urban areas where people argue about even less than 0.14'. It depends.
There are so many threads going right now about this I don't where to say this, but you've been looking for something in writing about senior lines v. junior monuments. I don't have my Brown's BC&LP here at home so I can't give you the chapter and verse but there's a section in there about truncating junior lines to senior lines. Brown seems to be having a bad run lately with more people finding ways to disagree with him than agree, though, I admit that.
JB
> Personally, I get tired of the argument that pincushioning belittles our profession or makes us look silly. What seems sillier to me is telling a client "Yesirree, that's pipe's right on the line" when we know it isn't.
Carl had asked the quest if "he had pincushioned". The picture pretty much answers that. The motivation for asking would presumably be that pin-cushioning is an apparent negative in the eyes of most surveyors (though this is not entirely clear). Carl was well & truly justified to set his monument where he determined the legal & correct location to be. He still would justified at only 0.08' departure (i suppose), though I suspect most would argue that to TRULY be pincushioning, even with the sacred state ROW in play. When is it too far? When is it close enough? I would imagine most pincushioners have justification of some form for why they did it, and there's nothing in any state laws that would say they are in the wrong to place their monuments as they so determine the legal & correct location to be. So is there really such a thing as a pincushion?
Pretty much a big do do about nothing. Luckily we are still only talking about hundredths, before too long surveyors will be correcting to the thousandth (some probably already are).
If the opinion about the corner location is as positive as most of the posting seems indicate, why don't you tear up the faulty pipe so it won't confuse anyone in the future. Let's get it down to relocating a punch mark on the top of the bar.
Buy the way no monument was set only a surveyors opinion. To be a monument it needs to be set with the original conveyance and called for in the original description recorded by the GRANTOR (not a surveyor at all). Other than an original or verified (in the record) replacement of an original it's not technically a monument unless blessed as such by all affected LANDOWNERS (probably in writing in the record).
Of course in these anal surveyor discussions on sites like this, landowners are very rarely mentioned as having anything to do with determining THEIR boundaries. So be it if you really consider that the landowners own and control the land and therefore the boundaries, then the surveyor is really not much more than an irritating bug. Maybe an entertaining bug for a couple days. Preaching to the choir for kicks I suppose.