Corner Record Requirement in California

January 1, 1985

I didn't know the exact date, just that it was required when I got mine in 1990.B-)

> January 1, 1985

Dang! That's why I missed it.
I have vague memories of December 31, 1984, but not much after that.
😛

Don

Thanks. Does anyone know how this change came about? Was it a change in the PLS Act, a Board decision, a court precedent, or…?

Also, I had thought that the date would be more recent than 1985. Was there a gap of some years until this change was general knowledge among surveyors?

It is in the PLS Act:

8773. Corner records - “lost corners”
(a) Except as provided in subdivision (b) of Section 8773.4, a person authorized to
practice land surveying in this state shall complete, sign, stamp with his or her seal, and file with
the county surveyor or engineer of the county where the corners are situated, a written record of
corner establishment or restoration to be known as a “corner record” for every corner established
by the Survey of the Public Lands of the United States, except “lost corners,” as defined by the
Manual of Surveying Instructions (2009), published by the federal Bureau of Land Management
and every accessory to such corner which is found, set, reset, or used as control in any survey by
such authorized person.
(b) After the establishment of a lost corner, as defined by the Manual of Surveying
Instructions (2009), published by the federal Bureau of Land Management a record of survey
shall be filed as set forth in Section 8764.
(c) Any person authorized to practice land surveying in this state may file such corner
record for any property corners, property controlling corners, reference monuments, or
accessories to a property corner.
8773.1. Corner record form
The board shall by regulation provide and prescribe the information which shall be
necessary to be included in the corner record and the board shall prescribe the form in which
such corner record shall be submitted and filed, and the time limits within which the form shall
be filed. A corner record shall be a single 8.5 by 11 inch sheet which may consist of a front and
back page.
8773.2. Corner record filing
(a) A “corner record” submitted to the county surveyor or engineer shall be examined by
him or her for compliance with subdivision (d) of Section 8765 and Sections 8773, 8773.1, and
8773.4, endorsed with a statement of his or her examination, and filed with the county surveyor
or returned to the submitting party within 20 working days after receipt.
(b) In the event the submitted "corner record" fails to comply with the examination
criteria of subdivision (a), the county surveyor or engineer shall return it to the person who
submitted it together with a written statement of the changes necessary to make it conform to the
requirements of subdivision (a). The licensed land surveyor or licensed civil engineer submitting
the corner record may then make the agreed changes in compliance with subdivision (a) and note
those matters that cannot be agreed upon in accordance with the provisions of subdivision (c),
and shall resubmit the corner record within 60 days, or within the time as may be mutually
agreed upon by the licensed land surveyor or licensed civil engineer and the county surveyor, to
the county surveyor for filing pursuant to subdivision (c). The county surveyor or engineer shall
file the corner record within 10 working days after receipt of the resubmission.
(c) If the matters appearing on the corner record cannot be agreed upon by the licensed
land surveyor or the licensed civil engineer and the county surveyor within 10 working days after
the licensed land surveyor or licensed civil engineer resubmits and requests the corner record be
filed without further change, an explanation of the differences shall be noted on the corner record
and it shall be submitted to and filed by the county surveyor. The licensed land surveyor or
licensed civil engineer filing the corner record shall attempt to reach agreement with the county
surveyor regarding the language for the explanation of the differences. If they cannot agree on
the language explaining the differences, then both shall add a notation on the corner record 22 2014 Professional Land Surveyors’ Act
explaining the differences. The explanation of the differences shall be sufficiently specific to
identify the factual basis for the differences.
(d) The corner record filed with the county surveyor of any county shall be securely
fastened by him or her into a suitable book provided for that purpose.
(e) A charge for examining, indexing, and filing the corner record may be collected by
the county surveyor, not to exceed the amount required for the recording of a deed.
(f) If the preparer of the corner record provides a postage-paid, self-addressed envelope
or postcard with the filing of the corner record, the county surveyor shall return the postage-paid,
self-addressed envelope or postcard to the preparer of the corner record with the filing data
within 20 days of final filing. For the purposes of this subdivision, “filing data” includes the
date, book or volume, and the page at which the corner record is filed by the county surveyor.
This subdivision shall not apply to a county surveyor’s office that maintains an electronic data
base of filed corner records that is accessible to the public by reference to the preparer’s license
number.
8773.3. Corner record - monument rehabilitation
In every case where a corner record is filed pursuant to Section 8773, the licensed land
surveyor or registered civil engineer shall reconstruct or rehabilitate the monument of such
corner, and accessories to such corner, so that the same shall be left by him in such physical
condition that it remains as permanent a monument as is reasonably possible and so that the same
may be reasonably expected to be located with facility at all times in the future.
8773.4. Corner record; filing; conditions; exemptions
(a) A corner record shall be signed by a licensed land surveyor or licensed civil engineer
and stamped with his or her seal, or in the case of an agency of the United States government or
the State of California the certificate may be signed by the chief of the survey party making the
survey, setting forth his or her official title, prior to filing.
(b) A corner record need not be filed when:
(1) A corner record is on file and the corner is found as described in the existing
corner record.
(2) All conditions of Section 8773 are complied with by proper notations on a record
of survey map filed in compliance with the Professional Land Surveyors’ Act or a parcel
or subdivision map, in compliance with the Subdivision Map Act.
(3) When the survey is a survey of a mobilehome park interior lot as defined in
Section 18210 of the Health and Safety Code, provided that no subdivision map, official
map, or record of survey has been previously filed for the interior lot or no conversion to
residential ownership has occurred pursuant to Section 66428.1 of the Government Code.
(c) This section shall not apply to maps filed prior to January 1, 1974.

I didn't see it in the statutes....but I think there might be a grandfather exception for anyone still using a "transit". 😉

PLS Act 8765(d):

8765. Record of survey - exemptions
A record of survey is not required of any survey:
(a) When it has been made by a public officer in his or her official capacity and a reproducible copy thereof, showing all data required by Section 8764, except the recorder’s statement, has been filed with the county surveyor of the county in which the land is located. Any map so filed shall be indexed and kept available for public inspection.
(b) Made by the United States Bureau of Land Management.
(c) When a map is in preparation for recording or shall have been recorded under the provisions of the Subdivision Map Act.
(d) When the survey is a retracement of lines shown on a subdivision map, official map, or a record of survey, where no material discrepancies with those records are found and sufficient monumentation is found to establish the precise location of property corners thereon, provided that a corner record is filed for any property corners which are set or reset or found to be of a different character than indicated by prior records. For purposes of this subdivision, a “material discrepancy” is limited to a material discrepancy in the position of points or lines, or in dimensions.
(e) When the survey is a survey of a mobilehome park interior lot as defined in Section 18210 of the Health and Safety Code, provided that no subdivision map, official map, or record of survey has been previously filed for the interior lot or no conversion to residential ownership
as occurred pursuant to Section 66428.1 of the Government Code.

That was good, Mark Chain:-P
Dave's sense of humor is either lacking or very dry.
Knowing Dave, I suspect the latter.

Don

I should've added an "LOL" 😀

I was reading through the initial statutes I posted and didn't see where it says I have to file the CR but I knew it is in there. It's up in the R/S section.

The California PLS Statute has evolved over time, it could be cleaned up and better organized. A read through the West Annotated Codes is enlightening.

> January 1, 1985

Actually, I see it required in the 1982 law. I don't see it in the 1971 and prior years law. I don't have a copy of the years '71 to '81, so I can't comment on that.

I've got to say, for someone not being aware of a law in place since at least 1982, that's pretty bad. The LS Act is not all that big or cumbersom where a practicing land surveyor shouldn't be aware of all the provisions in it. Even if you were originally licensed prior to the inclusion of the requirement, I'm shocked that you have not looked at the laws that govern your profession for the last 35 years to see if it has changed.

If there was ever doubt about the need for California to enact a continuing education mandate, the original post here has demonstrated that at a minimum there is a need to at least demonstrate one has reviewed the laws governing his professional license at least once or twice in the last 35 years.

I'm still just totally flabbergasted a practicing surveyor in CA would claim ignorance of the CR requirement. WOW!

Edit,

A quick look in my county's records show that Corner Records have been recorded since 1974. And the form is near identical to the currently approved format. So, I've got to believe it was first enacted in 1974 or just immediately prior.

Thanks. I don’t think that this section regarding Corner Records helps. I am wondering when, and how, Corner Records became mandatory for all setting of monuments (with the exceptions noted for RS’s and Subdivision Maps), like for lot surveys, etc. I am familiar with the section of the PLS Act in your post. Yet, with the exception of Public Lands monuments, it only addresses the issue of the option of filing a Corner Record. Note 8773 (c) where the word ‘may’ is used. I.e., the filing of a corner record is optional, not mandatory.
Or to put it differently: If you plan on using this section of the PLS Act regarding Corner Records, how do you reconcile the concept of mandatory filing in all cases of setting our tags with 8773(c)?
I have noticed your post regarding the section on Records of Survey. This seems like a much better basis for the mandatory filing of Corner Records. I will probably have a few comments.

see PLS Act 8765(d)

You are right, I missed that.

The actual requirement is in the R/S sections.

I don't know when it was implemented. You can look it up in the Annotated Code (available at the Law Library) and that will have the history.

see PLS Act 8765(d)

8765 (d) is incoherent, and in my opinion legally ‘moot’. Exemptions to mandatory filing of RS’s can only apply to the set of those cases where it is required. Yet, setting a point on a line of record is not included in the requirements for filing of RS.

This is sort of like having an exemption for anyone whose last name begins with the letter ‘A’. This would be of no legal force, since there is no requirement for filing for filing for someone with the last name beginning with the letter ‘A’.

At a minimum there is ambiguity here. Since 8773 (c) unequivocally states the optional character of Corner Records (outside of specified cases), I think that this clears things up in a way not favorable to the idea of universal mandatory filing.

The requirement for ALL surveys to be recorded (Corner Record or Record of Survey) became MANDATORY on January 1, 1982.

It was the same time a survey of a portion of a lot required a Record of Survey.

That whole section of the PLSA was changed at that time.

I have never been able to find out who suggested the changes. Probably a committee.

see PLS Act 8765(d)

8761 requires filing of a R/S when there is a change in physical conditions. Your setting of a new monument changes the physical condition of that particular boundary. Hence 8765 allows an exception to filing of a R/S by allowing a CR instead.

In the spirit of the law, consider future retracing surveyors. If you don't file a CR (or R/S) for your new caps you set, then the future retracing surveyor will have no idea what your monument represents if you're not around to ask. The intent and spirit of the law dictates that any monuments set to represent a position on a property boundary, must be recorded either through a R/S or a CR.

see PLS Act 8765(d)

Clearcut,
I think you mean 8762, and the reference is to ‘physical change’ not ‘physical condition of a boundary’. Still, that’s quite a stretch. So the setting of a tag physically changes the property in question??? Wow. Maybe my digging a hole to look for a monument is a physical change that triggers a filing requirement. Maybe the owner building a wall along a property line, which later may be used as a ‘line of occupation’ with boundary implications, requires filing. Where does this stop?
And please note that this is in obvious conflict with 8773 (c).

When people start talking about the ‘spirit’ of a law that usually means that they have run out of intellectual resources. What about the spirit of 8773 (c)?

Clearcut,
You are missing the point. The question has to do with the mandatory filing of all Corner Records. Obviously, they have been required for specific cases (i.e. Public Lands Corners) for a long time.

In regard your statement that I “claim ignorance of the CR requirement”, note that I never claimed this. Obviously I know the PLS Act. Yet the basis for the universal Corner Record requirement has never been clear to me. So I decided to look for some input from others in my profession. I thought that this was one of the purposes of Beerleg.

Of course I am flabbergasted (to use your word) that you are incapable of seeing that I am posing, initially, a general question (and as simply as possible), that, in fact has had no consistent response by others.

In regard to your comments on my original post, am I the only one to notice your rude and insulting tone, which is totally out of sync with normal professional conduct? As it turns out from the various responses to my original post there is, in fact, quite a bit of confusion regarding the legal basis for the universal Corner Record requirement as well as the date that it came into effect; and in at least a couple of cases complete changes of opinion by others have taken place on these points.

see PLS Act 8765(d)

> Clearcut,
> I think you mean 8762, and the reference is to ‘physical change’ not ‘physical condition of a boundary’. Still, that’s quite a stretch. So the setting of a tag physically changes the property in question??? Wow. Maybe my digging a hole to look for a monument is a physical change that triggers a filing requirement. Maybe the owner building a wall along a property line, which later may be used as a ‘line of occupation’ with boundary implications, requires filing. Where does this stop?
> And please note that this is in obvious conflict with 8773 (c).
>
> When people start talking about the ‘spirit’ of a law that usually means that they have run out of intellectual resources. What about the spirit of 8773 (c)?

Yes, senility is starting to set in and I should know better than to quote from memory only. You're right, 8762 it is.

However I do not believe it to be a stretch of the imagination that by setting a new monument/tag one creates a physical change to the evidence that establishes the location of a boundary line. The monuments are an integral part of the boundary. Changing the monuments without documenting those changes thereafter puts question into how those monuments came to be. A CR will put future surveyors on notice as to what evidence or procedures you utilized in making your determination of placement. It will make a difference in whether future surveyors accept your monument as a careful perpetuation or reject a half-assed attempt. I would hope you're not fighting the idea of filing CRs due to the lack of sound standard of practice in how those monuments were established? I strongly doubt that someone who dots his i's and crosses his t's in performing a diligent perpetuation effort would have so much heartburn over providing future surveyors documentation as to one's methods, procedures and evidence utilized.

I suppose one of limited effort would also question the wisdom of those legal authorities who have delved into the history of individual statute enactment with the purpose of determining legislative intent. Perhaps that not so rare occurance is caused by "running out of intellectual resources". Or, perhaps it may be to simply obtain a true understanding of the spirit of the law.

As to 8773(c), it does not negate the mandate for filing found elsewhere, rather it is complimentary in providing an ability for those situations which are not mandated.