Cfeds

The 'talking points', for CFEDS have evolved over the years. At least at one point in the initial years it was discussed that the training could be and would be used free (if you can get it) and even shared with tribal and BIA employees and thus 'elevate' the quality of surveys in Indian Country. The only cost to you was if you wanted to be certified you had to sign up and pay the fees and participate in the program. This fairly quickly changed when it seems to have involved into a revenue generating scheme at least in part to pay the costs of the staff and expensed to maintain the program. (This relates also to the PLSS Foundation).

So I would expect that there probably is no copyright or copy restriction.

The course was originally distributed on a bunch of DVD's but they are fairly unreliable so they went to distribution via a USB portable drive. If you can find someone with a version of that, you may be able to make a copy (for your costs of the drive) and take the course. Of course you will not have access to the instructors for questions or their conference calls, or their quizes and tests. Errata is available on the CFEDS web site. It is still a fairly rigourous course and a lot who started it did not complete it. When they say things like 190 hours or 240 hours of coursework, they mean it.

In general it is a pretty good basic course on the details of the PLSS, much beyond what is probably taught in any other course or curriculum in any school, but not as thorough as a 1373 surveyor for the BLM would get from a few years work experience and in that regard is sort of like PLSS 101 and 102 as far as a 1373 surveyor in BLM would be concerned but perhaps a 400 course in a regular surveying curriculum.

The courses were designed to replace older training course within BLM for it's own people as well as for the CFEDS program. Those replaced most of the entry level basic courses as well as some (but not all) of the more advanced courses which had been available only through a several weeks classroom training (the so called 'Advanced Cadastral' course) which was expensive to conduct.

What are the benefits today of getting a CFEDS? You would have to call a few CFEDS and get feedback. My impression is that it is so far used and abused primarily as an indication of accomplishment dedication and status like any other certification course, but probably has limited economic return to the surveyor in most areas.

If you are wanting to take the course primarily to advance your professional knowledge in the PLSS it is an extremely good use for the course.

This may or may not change. A few years back they added CE courses that are virtually mandatory adding several hundred dollars a year to the costs of maintaining certification. This is in addition to a newly imposed yearly registration or renewal fee for a few hundred more as I recall.

BLM (and ACSM) has made noises that it wants to make having the certification a requirement for ALL federal surveying contracts. I have issues with that. 1) Not all federal surveying activity is even boundary work. What does CFEDS tell you about flood control construction work for example? 2) Many current contractors, such as a number in Alaska would suddenly be disqualified from contracts to considerable detriment of the work load, Tribal and BIA priorities. 3) Actual experience on work of the nature required should still be the primary indicator of a contractors qualification and a few points awarded for the cert if relevant.

Also recognize that their may be contracts for work directly for tribes which a CFEDS will qualify you for, but which are not necessarily Federal contracts or jobs. Only a few areas have tribes that have funds for such things.

As an aside: People often misunderstand the difference between a survey like that under your state license for a tribe or federal agency and a true 'Federal Authority' survey which supposedly a CFEDS would qualify you to do. They are a whole other level of effort which is not much covered in the CFEDS course where the work will be directed, inspected, and approved by BLM for a survey fully comparable to an inhouse cadastral job. Few of these have been done so far as I know.

The overall cost to the tax payer may be higher than inhouse surveys due to the time and effort required to supervise, inspect and examine and finally approve the CFEDS work for a Federal Authority survey. One advantage to the process is IF a qualified process IS in place in your jurisdiction, it could be done more quickly than inhouse when that is the priority and not simply funding or costs.

I suppose that will evolve. You can see indications of this intent that date back years in such places as the PLSSF charter.

It looks to me like the Federal government is not going to be throwing around much $$ in the coming years so not sure how that might affect the overall pool of contracting. Except in Alaska and a few tribes in the NW Conus the tribes have not been that willing to fund surveys that have previously been funded by BIA out of large appropriations for that purpose.

jlwahl,

My impression is that it is so far used and abused primarily as an indication of accomplishment dedication and status like any other certification course, but probably has limited economic return to the surveyor in most areas.

Pretty well covered the gammit.

I am one of the 69 original "beta" group of CFedS. In the Northwest states, there have been about a handful of opportunities to benefit financially from the programs certification, but I believe that somewhere in the bowels of the process, the successful candidates were known prior to the request for the work.

I personally took the course only for the benefit of the instruction, which I felt I could get nowhere else. I have not been disappointed in that regard.

My real disappointment is in the "dangling of the carrot" that CFedS would be on a "preferred" list for all Federal survey jobs: Forest Service, Parks, whatever.

I have seen no indication of that.

All that being said, IF you can afford the grand or so to get started, and then several hundred dollars every two years for continuing education, PLUS lots and lots of hours to devote to the program, I would recommend it for any who do work with LOST OR OBLITERATED Public Land Corners.

Elsewise, . . . not so much

Geezer

Thanks for the great commentaries of the program, gentlemen.

(I went to a "travelling" show back in 1993, ,prior to the CFedS program. I think the Course was called Cadastral Survey Unit 1. (?). I have been in a quandary about taking the certification program, but have had a hard time with the cost.)

> I went to a "travelling" show back in 1993, prior to the CFedS program. I think the Course was called Cadastral Survey Unit 1.

I was at that too, it was in Arvada, CO as I recall.

I was always hoping for a "Unit 2." 🙂

Hello jlwahl,

Thanks for getting back to me, I appreciate your comprehensive explanation. I worked with a Cfed and we actually went through the process your describing for a tribe in Arizona. It was as you describe and actually a good experience.I learned a lot from that survey and from that surveyor. I'm glad you mentioned the copyright issue for he was concerned with propriety, being a Cfed meant something to him. He let me borrow the disks and I reviewed all of them. I also have the two course manuals which I use regularly and continue to study from. I understand and agree with everyones comments concerning the value of the material and that is what is most important to me. Not interested in bragging rights.

That being said, I recently passed the Oklahoma state specific and am thinking there may be some return more than being most prepared given the cultural make up of Oklahoma, not sure. If my employer sees the value in it and is willing to foot the bill then I probably will do it. I actually like to study and the time is not an issue.

In any event thank you again for your insight, I appreciate your time, it has answered the questions.

On a similar note, if anyone has the disks or the USB version, I would pay any costs involved in making/sending copies.

Thank You, rlshound