I've seen this a few times over the years, mostly with 3/8" rebar. You start digging and find the top of a 3/8" rebar, dig a little more and you notice that it's leaning a little, so you dig a little more looking for the bend. Then you notice that it was bent away from you, but now you're seeing that the deeper you go, it's turning to the right, so you did a little more and find the real bend. The first bend was 0.3' West of where the top was and the real bend is 0.4' South of the first bend. Took a lot of effort to get to the bottom of today's example. Pro-Tip: Never trust the first bend in a 3/8" rebar without a little bit of extra digging.
Shawn Billings, post: 381066, member: 6521 wrote: Pro-Tip: Never trust the first bend in a 3/8" rebar without a little bit of extra digging.
I might take a more general approach: Never trust a 3/8" rebar.
Locate top end, locate bend and locate where it goes vertical and at bottom for reference as you dig down.
Dig until it can be spun around to see if the bottom is vertical or leaning.
Clear hole down to bottom or where it goes vertical.
Straighten when possible and replace when not able.
Reset in apparent vertical position.
Make final location of restored rebar.
"to restored 3/8 inch rebar found bent"
"to 3/8 inch rebar found bent and restored"
"to 3/4 inch iron pipe with 3inch aluminum cap marked Harris 4628 to replace damaged 3/8" rebar"
Every rear bumper and trailer needs a built in spot strong enough to straighten rods and pipes.
A supply of 4ft sections of pipe to slip over bent rods and pipes can help.
:gammon:
Jim Frame, post: 381067, member: 10 wrote: I might take a more general approach: Never trust a 3/8" rebar.
True, but I once drove a 5 foot long 3/4 inch rebar into some fill that was loaded with 2-3 foot boulders. It went in ok, but I was premature in setting it and decided it needed to move about 6 inches. So the next day, I returned with a Hi-Lift jack and pulled it out - it was bent in the shape of a "J", with the bottom end actually pointing up!
So even the larger bars can bend.
One thing I have noticed about 3/8" rebar is that it seems to always have a good magnetic signal. This example did not. But generally the percentage of "dead" 3/8 is lower thanthe number of "dead" 1/2", 5/8", and 3/4" that I have seen. There was an engineering/ surveying company that set 3/8" for about 50 years and did a majority of the subdivisions in my area in the 70's and 80's. This 3/8 was on rural property surveyed in the mid 70's. While not a fan of 3/8, the other thing I have seen that I appreciate about 3/8 is that it will bend rather than lean when disturbed, preserving the original location of the corner better than a heavier rod that might lean instead.
A Harris, post: 381068, member: 81 wrote:
"to restored 3/8 inch rebar found bent"
"to 3/8 inch rebar found bent and restored"
"to 3/4 inch iron pipe with 3inch aluminum cap marked Harris 4628 to replace damaged 3/8" rebar"
The variations that I'd use would be:
"to a 3/8-inch iron rod found (rod found bent with lower section plumb and straight; removed rod, straightened, and reset in position of base as found)"
"to a Standard Rod and Cap set to replace a 3/8-inch iron rod found (severely bent) in the position of the base of said rod as found"
Wordier, but gives the level of detail that I'd like to see myself to know what "restored" means. Otherwise, I might think that the corner had been restored by survey ties from some other corner instead of just refurbishing the marker itself.
Shawn Billings, post: 381066, member: 6521 wrote: I've seen this a few times over the years, mostly with 3/8" rebar. You start digging and find the top of a 3/8" rebar, dig a little more and you notice that it's leaning a little, so you dig a little more looking for the bend. Then you notice that it was bent away from you, but now you're seeing that the deeper you go, it's turning to the right, so you did a little more and find the real bend. The first bend was 0.3' West of where the top was and the real bend is 0.4' South of the first bend. Took a lot of effort to get to the bottom of today's example. Pro-Tip: Never trust the first bend in a 3/8" rebar without a little bit of extra digging.
With all the rocks, boulders and bedrock around here, the top of the rebar is many times the correct location because it had to be driven at an angle or had to bend the top back into position once driven.
We don't have that problem much here, but I do wonder at times if some of the slightly bent rods we find aren't bent to put the top on point.
So you're gonna pull out the "size" card, eh?
😉
How about you find a re-bar that looks like it is bent...you dig around to find the base and end up with a 4" long piece of re-bar in your hand!!
Ever happened to you?
Shawn Billings, post: 381104, member: 6521 wrote: We don't have that problem much here, but I do wonder at times if some of the slightly bent rods we find aren't bent to put the top on point.
Probably more than you think. It is the norm around here. Another reason I think re-bar makes a crappy monument. Jp
Like Duane said; I never assume the top of the rebar is "off" just because it's bent....
Most of time I'm happy just to find something 😎
Shawn Billings, post: 381066, member: 6521 wrote: I've seen this a few times over the years, mostly with 3/8" rebar. You start digging and find the top of a 3/8" rebar, dig a little more and you notice that it's leaning a little, so you dig a little more looking for the bend. Then you notice that it was bent away from you, but now you're seeing that the deeper you go, it's turning to the right, so you did a little more and find the real bend. The first bend was 0.3' West of where the top was and the real bend is 0.4' South of the first bend. Took a lot of effort to get to the bottom of today's example. Pro-Tip: Never trust the first bend in a 3/8" rebar without a little bit of extra digging.
Here is the problem with all of that...have you ever watched a crew set a rebar that didn't go in straight due to cobbles, etc? Sure you can drill it, but you are putting in 50 of these today...and so, you true it up every so often, or if you are in a real hurry, maybe once at the end. They only part in the correct position is the top, with the cap. And now someone digs it up, and finds the bottom?
Ok, you don't like how the crew set the rebar. I hear you, but that isn't the point, the point is where it is at right now.
3/8" does not meet minimum standards in SC. You will, however, find plenty of them around.
Have lots of 1/2" rebar around here, nearly all were set pre 1980 and finding one pretty well dates when it was set depending on when the subdivision was done. I have yet to see a 3/8" rebar, be like setting a noodle with all the glacial till stones around here. I can't tell you how many rebar I've set over the years that hit one of those stones and slid off at an angle as it went down and had to be torqued over to get it on point, so I just don't judge the quality of the location based solely on how straight it is, nor where the bottom of it is. I've found plenty of straight and true rebar and pipes that were a long way from where they belong and many a spinner that were spot on. Without tieing in a sufficient number of corners to get a good feel for what to hold and what to reject, the condition of the individual pin can be a bit misleading, though the ones all twisted like a cork screw that fall with a few feet of a utility pole are generally suspect in my book. 😉
The Forester set a series of 3/8" rebars at the angle points of a series of courses and distances from the Deed. They are on top of a ridge. He did it in 1976 and I have a copy of his map.
I found most of them, a few didn't survive. They look and measure like 1/2" rebars to me.
The first one I found bent over about this time last year. I straightened it and flagged it. I get back there to tie it into my traverse this week (lots of interruptions including an emergency boundary survey at a different state forest that got burned over in the Valley Fire). It looks like a gopher pushed it up out of the ground and it's lying there at a 45 degree angle, Dagnabit. It is set in clay and we had a wet winter. I think straightening it loosened it then the wet clay heaved it up over the winter. It went back in its hole at the base of the rebar. Weird, I've never seen a rebar get heaved up like that. Dan thinks a deer did it. I don't think it was human because I would think they would fling it away.
imaudigger, post: 381114, member: 7286 wrote: Ever happened to you?
Yes, and worse. Once I tried to tie in what was supposed to be a 1"x30" iron pipe centerline monument in a well. I removed the well cover -- it was an odd little thing, not the standard valve box as is customary around here -- and saw the pipe inside. I reached in to clean off the cap so I could read the LS number, and it fell over. It turned out the contractor dug just far enough into the pavement to fit the well, dropped a dollop of concrete inside, and then pushed a 4" pipe nipple with cap into the concrete. Worthless! I complained to the city, and was told that the contractor had gone bankrupt and there wasn't anything they could do to make him rectify the situation.
Shawn Billings, post: 381081, member: 6521 wrote: One thing I have noticed about 3/8" rebar is that it seems to always have a good magnetic signal. This example did not. But generally the percentage of "dead" 3/8 is lower thanthe number of "dead" 1/2", 5/8", and 3/4" that I have seen. There was an engineering/ surveying company that set 3/8" for about 50 years and did a majority of the subdivisions in my area in the 70's and 80's. This 3/8 was on rural property surveyed in the mid 70's. While not a fan of 3/8, the other thing I have seen that I appreciate about 3/8 is that it will bend rather than lean when disturbed, preserving the original location of the corner better than a heavier rod that might lean instead.
I believe I know which firm you speak of, many records but yowzer sometimes things just don't match where they should be
