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Basic Behavioral Procedures in Court for Surveyors (or any other reason for you being there)

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(@flga-2-2-2-2-2-2-2-2)
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Basic Behavioral Procedures in Court

  1. Dress professionally and appropriately. It is not necessary to dress like a lawyer, but conservative and ƒ??business casualƒ? is ok.
  2. Show up on time in the right place. Make sure you know ahead of time what courthouse you need to go to. You may not know the exact courtroom before the day of court. If you do not, you can consult a sheriff in the courthouse who will direct you to a wall that shows all the matters being heard in court and what courtroom they are in.
  3. You may have to wait outside the courtroom before your testimony. Ask your lawyer where you should wait. When you are called in, you will make your way to the witness box to the side and in front of the judgeƒ??s bench where you will either swear or affirm to tell the truth.
  4. Be aware that there is a chance that you will not be called to testify at the scheduled time and you may have to return at another time.
  5. Do not bring bottled water, coffee, or food into the courtroom.
  6. When the judge comes into the courtroom and leaves the courtroom, the clerk will say, ƒ??All riseƒ?. Stand up until either the judge sits down or leaves the room.
  7. While in Court, when you address the judge, call him or her ƒ??Your Honour
  8. If you are a professional witness, consult your file before you go to court so the facts are fresh in your mind. If you need to look at your notes during your testimony to refresh your memory, ask permission.
  9. Listen carefully to the questions you are being asked and only answer the specific question asked. Do not provide extra information. Do not exaggerate, or ramble on.
  10. Do not interrupt a lawyer asking you a question before he or she has finished asking. Wait until the lawyer stops speaking. Obviously, you should never interrupt a judge either.
  11. If you do not understand the question or you did not hear the question, ask the lawyer to repeat or rephrase it.
  12. Never guess an answer or make an answer up. If you do not know the answer to the question being asked, simply say that you do not know or you do not remember as the case may be.
  13. If you make a mistake in your evidence, correct it as soon as you can.
  14. When you are giving evidence, make sure you look at the judge and not at the lawyer asking the question. You are providing information to the court and not to the lawyer. This may feel awkward, but it will help the judge follow your evidence.
  15. Speak clearly when you are answering. Do not use gestures or noises instead of words (i.e. nodding your head or saying ƒ??mmhmmƒ? instead of ƒ??yesƒ?). There is a transcript being made of what is happening in court and this sort of thing does not translate onto the record.
  16. Do not refuse to answer a question. If a question is inappropriate, the other lawyer will object, and the judge will decide whether you must answer or not.
  17. Try not to argue with a lawyer questioning you, and do not display anger or rudeness. Remain calm and neutral. Some can be very intimidating and hit a hot button.
  18. When testifying, you are there to provide the court with facts. Do not volunteer your opinions or conclusions on matters in issue.
  19. Try to avoid testifying about what someone else told you because this is called ƒ??hearsayƒ? and normally not permissible evidence. Where possible, only relay your own observations.
  20. If you are declared a hostile witness, do not take offense, this means the opposing Attorney is scared of you.
 
Posted : 06/07/2022 1:03 pm
(@skeeter1996)
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Some Lawyers don't play by those rules. I had one recently that was continuously interrupting my testimony and cutting me off before I was done speaking. He asked me if I put the line on the ground. It was hard not to reply sarcastically. Very rude. The Judge did nothing to rein him in.

I don't have much respect for the American legal system.

 
Posted : 06/07/2022 5:43 pm
(@olemanriver)
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may i copy these down to use as a learning tool. ?ÿI love placing material on sticky notes chalk board hanging up in my cubical. I am a slow learned so I post and place things every where so I can retain them. Knowledge learned and applied.?ÿ

 
Posted : 06/07/2022 5:53 pm
(@nate-the-surveyor)
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Always pause just a little, before every answer. Think during the pause. "Is this a loaded question" is the lawyer obfuscating? Use language the judge will understand.

I have asked the judge for help, because yes/no will lead where I don't want to go, due to it being a loaded question. The judge enjoyed my avoidance of traps, and my efforts to stay in reality and truth.?ÿ

N

 
Posted : 06/07/2022 6:29 pm
(@james-fleming)
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Posted by: @nate-the-surveyor

"Is this a loaded question" is the lawyer obfuscating?

Yes. (To be fair, in many cases that's actually their job)

 
Posted : 07/07/2022 5:00 am
(@i-ben-havin)
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Exhibits can be handy. Aerial photographs, Government Township plats. Your map. The other surveyor's map. Use enlarged aerial imagery of suitable scale to be able to point to for explanations of your reconnaissance. Make sure the exhibits are of a large enough size to be observed from 10-15 feet away.

Also, copies (enough for both attorneys, including the judge of course) of any Board rules that address a point you wish to make, copies of government field notes you wish to discuss that show how your decisions are supported. Make copies (enough to go around) of all text from recognized experts (Brown, Skelton, etc.) that support your decisions/interpretations. Hand these materials out, and refer to them (make sure everyone knows what exhibit they need to read/see prior to making a particular point).

See if your client's attorney will allow you to make your presentation without interruption so that you can walk the court through your basis of interpretation and acceptance or rejection of evidence (it helps if you can refer to recognized experts so use copies from various recognized texts and exhibits when you do this).

Sometimes a lawyer (hopefully it will be the one on the other side) will start going down a road, without any understanding of why it (the road ) is there. For example in Seddon v Harpster, (Florida Supreme Court, 1979, Lake County) Plaintiff's attorney kept wanting to know whether I ran the line (Section lines) from North to South or from South to North (and East to West, West to East, etc.). I figured that in his preparations he had come across the admonition to ƒ??follow in the footstepsƒ?, so he was keen to impress that he knew what he was doing. Several times I would have to remind him that I had already explained how the Government field notes were obviously faked, and how there never had been any footsteps to follow. After a while he finally stopped asking.

You are the ƒ??expertƒ? witness, if a line of questioning is ridiculous call it out, but be fully knowledgeable on what you say. If you have ever been in an attorney's office you have seen walls full of books. Obviously, no attorney has ever read every law book. For boundary disputes/survey matters, the (typical) attorney will look through a hand full of texts, make a few notes for what he/she wishes to refer to, make copies of a few pages, and once filings/answers are completed be ready to go to court.

In my experience the average surveyor knows more about surveying law than the average lawyer, so don't be afraid to offer help/suggestions. The strangest court case I have ever been involved bore this out.

Back in the 90's I was subpoenaed to appear as a witness in a dispute involving a boundary line agreement. A map I had prepared a few years earlier showed an existing fence encroaching over onto my clients deeded land area. Sometime after the survey my client took the fence down. After the survey was completed, only then did my client have true knowledge of where the actual property line ran, so she had the fence removed. As she explained, the fence had been placed where she and her old neighbor guessed the line would run, but once she discovered the true line location she wanted all her land. It really was that simple. However, by the time I did the survey the original neighbor had sold out, and there was now a new neighbor who was never a party to whatever she and the old neighbor had done, but he was suing to put the fence back where it was when he bought. He was claiming the fence represented an agreed boundary and that it now was the boundary. During the trial, after I was called into the room, and the Plaintiff's attorney had finished up with me, the Judge turned to the woman, and asked if she had any questions for me. I could see the elderly woman was alone and had no lawyer, she was also crying and shaking nervously. I asked the court for permission to talk as I thought I likely had enough knowledge to be able to know the questions her lawyer (had she been represented) would likely want to ask. The Judge asked Plaintiff's lawyer if he objected. He did not. So, I was given free time to speak. I told the Judge that I had read all the pleadings, had listened to all the questions from Plaintiff's attorney, but that nowhere had it been alleged there had ever been a dispute between the Defendant and the old neighbor prior to the erection of the fence. So, I told (er, reminded) the Judge that absent a dispute an agreement is not binding on a 3rd party. The Judge listened, wrote down some notes, then told everyone he would make his decision known by the end of the week. He ruled in favor of the Defendant. The most ridiculous part of this whole thing was that I had already told the Plaintiff's lawyer in a meeting held at another surveyor's office that absent a dispute agreements are not binding on 3rd parties. He's a lawyer so he just laughed me off. (This was true at least in Florida at the time. Do not know if the same today.)

During the 60's and 70's as the Forest Engineer for a paper company with several million acres, I had the experience of testifying in court a number of times in several states. Out of this experience I learned that I could be extremely helpful to the attorney if I could prepare a set of questions I would want to be asked, along with how and where the line of questioning would lead. I would also prepare a set of questions for our attorney to ask the other surveyor that would reveal mistakes or weakness in the other surveyor's work product. Of course you will have to study and become knowledgeable of the other surveyor's conclusions. In Seddon v Harpster I wrote down at least 10 legal pad pages of questions that I wanted our attorney to ask me. I also prepared a long list of questions that I seriously wanted him to ask the other surveyors, because I saw the weaknesses in their work and knew the questions that would expose it.

Good luck. But, most of all be prepared.

?ÿ

 
Posted : 07/07/2022 6:25 pm
(@jitterboogie)
Posts: 4275
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@skeeter1996?ÿ

One tactic in this case takes forethought to the process, and then respond to the judge with eye contact and ask

" your honor, will I be able to answer the question as asked, without an Interruption or do I just have to keep ad libbing at the whim of this attorney so they can craft the answer they are seeking?"

Might shut the attorney down, and is a valid and thoughtful question in the presentation of evidence.

IANAL.

?ÿ

?ÿ

 
Posted : 07/07/2022 9:00 pm
(@duane-frymire)
Posts: 1924
 

The majority of jurisdictions now allow the expert witness to give their opinion/conclusion.?ÿ But it has to be based on legitimate research.?ÿ

When asked what standard of proof needed, one surveyor said "I set the standard in this (geographic) area".?ÿ It wasn't stricken from the record (no jury) but did help him lose credibility and the case. As it happened, I also answered incorrectly (my first case) but at least gave the appropriate generic "preponderance of evidence" reply for a civil case.

In one case the Judge opinion was pretty short, basically "I agree with Duane".?ÿ Other side tried to appeal because "Judge must have their own opinion, not simply agree with expert". Appeal denied.

I find Judges and Justices are extremely interested in getting an expert opinion, and very disappointed if an "expert" doesn't have one.

"just the facts" is for lay witnesses.

 
Posted : 09/07/2022 7:39 am
(@brad-ott)
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Posted by: @duane-frymire

"just the facts" is for lay witnesses

Too bad we cannot always choose which sort of witness we are.

 
Posted : 09/07/2022 11:49 am
(@brad-ott)
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Posted : 09/07/2022 1:25 pm
(@dave-o)
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@jitterboogie I just keep hoping that IANAL isn't anything remotely related to what some childish idiot like me can't help but immediately think it might randomly have to do with...

I'm sure it's just me because I probably still giggle at loud farts, too.

But it probably would help me flip that switch off if you told me what it stands for.

 
Posted : 11/07/2022 10:47 am
(@jitterboogie)
Posts: 4275
Customer
 

@dave-o?ÿ

Naughty.

?ÿ

You're thinking about

I hart a nail.

Jeesh.

Keep it clean!!??

???œ ???œ ???œ?ÿ

 
Posted : 11/07/2022 11:03 am
(@kevin-hines)
Posts: 874
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IANAL = I Am Not A Lawyer (I think???)?ÿ @jitterboogie and his texting acronyms....

?ÿ

 
Posted : 11/07/2022 11:15 am
(@dave-o)
Posts: 433
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Posted by: @jitterboogie

@dave-o?ÿ

Naughty.

?ÿYou're thinking about

I hart a nail.

Jeesh.

Keep it clean!!??

???œ ???œ ???œ?ÿ

It reminded me of the custom title Tobias gives himself in Netflix's Arrested Development.?ÿ To highlight his dual areas of expertise in both Medical Therapy and Analysis he has business cards made for his private practice naming him as the Analrapist (at the same time he had custom license plates made to indicate his new start in life - ANUSTART).?ÿ Almost got him arrested.

 
Posted : 11/07/2022 12:29 pm
(@holy-cow)
Posts: 25292
 

Judges are fellow humans, with or without their robes.?ÿ Like most other people, they are not renowned experts on every subject that might come before them in their courtroom.?ÿ But, over time, they become quite adept at recognizing smoke blowing and BS'ing and exaggeration and intentionally deceptive statements.?ÿ Most do not tolerate buffoons and fools.

The opposing lawyer wants to prove you have weaknesses and then exploit that concept.?ÿ The attorney who has brought you in as an expert must be trained and educated by you as how to get the biggest bang out of your knowledge.

 
Posted : 11/07/2022 12:36 pm
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