Attorney RING RING

that's good! but at least it was your own survey.. I had a realtor! call me the other day and ask me to put new certifications on an old survey by some other firm and sign it!!!

I told him that would be totally ILLEGAL.

Whether you certify to the title company and attorney's client or not, there
are about half a dozen others involved in a real estate transaction that might
sue you for any minor mistake.

It is great to see others respecting the fact that we should not be giving things away just because we are really nice people. Too many down through the years have given away far too much.

I don't know my ALTA's, per se, but why is certifying to the client something you can only do in an ALTA survey?

I agree that with your signature and seal, you are certifying your work as a professional land surveyor, and don't think you need specific wording to the client; but I don't know how any of that is specific to an ALTA survey (except for the ALTA Certification).

This seems to be a new trend with the banks , I have had a few Attorneys ask that I certify my survey to Title Company , Client and Bank . I asked if they wanted an ALTA they said no just certify to the parties . Also wanted me to list the exceptions on the survey and put legal on survey . I asked again if they wanted a ALTA survey they said no just put that on my survey . I told them I have met my state requirements for the survey and also for the certification .

They did not like it and told them I would do an ALTA, no did not want the extra expense . So they want a Survey that looks like an ALTA, but is not an ALTA . This has happened Twice also tried to slip in a long form certification I declined to use it .

Seems like the Attorneys are now figuring out that if they do not require an ALTA we have no grounds for turning away their request to unlimited liability .

Is this a trend .

That sounds just like my dippy client recently who really wanted an ALTA but kept insisting he didn't. He simply didn't want to pay for one. He thought that if he started off telling me all he needed was the four corners found or reset that I would forget over time as he kept trying to claim I had agreed to add more and more detail. Sucked to be him.

We bid an ALTA a few weeks back, came to an agreement with the attorney, wrote up a contract and specified what Table A items I would certify to, and who would appear in the certification.

After signing the contract, she sends me a list of requirements completely different than what was agreed upon. Different Table A requirements, and she wanted her name (the attorney) and "successors and assigns" to appear in the cert. I told her we would have to re-negotiate. She tells me "oh, we will just get our usual surveyor to do it.

This was an "update" to an ALTA I did back in February, and she needed it in less than a week. She probably found somebody to digitize my plan and certify to world for cheap $.

-V

> We bid an ALTA a few weeks back, came to an agreement with the attorney, wrote up a contract and specified what Table A items I would certify to, and who would appear in the certification.
>
> After signing the contract, she sends me a list of requirements completely different than what was agreed upon. Different Table A requirements, and she wanted her name (the attorney) and "successors and assigns" to appear in the cert. I told her we would have to re-negotiate. She tells me "oh, we will just get our usual surveyor to do it.
>
> This was an "update" to an ALTA I did back in February, and she needed it in less than a week. She probably found somebody to digitize my plan and certify to world for cheap $.
>
> -V

My advice, keep an eye on the public records and on the site. If a deed shows up with a new surveyors name and no evidence they redid the work, time to have a talk and turn them in to the board.

As for putting attorney's names on the plat, no ... no... no. But you already knew that.

Larry P

There are people out there with survey "licenses", and people out there that are career survey professionals.

Same with attorneys, the classic "I have a license to PRACTICE law"... and then, there are committed legal professionals.

People with a "license" generally have nothing more than a job... and every decision they make is predicated on the risk of losing that job, generally the only reason for their license.

People who are licensed "professionals, generally have a professional career. They think in terms of every decision impacting that professional career/resume.

Sounds like she just needed a "license".

I've always found this the best filter "up front" when possible to dump clients that just "need a license".

Sounds like your also better off without that "job"..

> Whether you certify to the title company and attorney's client or not, there
> are about half a dozen others involved in a real estate transaction that might
> sue you for any minor mistake.

Anybody can sue you ... whether you make a mistake or not. I had a client that was sued by the neighbors to a piece of property he sold because they didn't like the person who bought the property. (It cost my client $8,000 to get the case thrown out of court.)

As for the importance of names being in the certification, it is a big deal. Here is why.

Most often surveyors are sued under a theory of law called negligent misrepresentation.

In order to be successful under that theory the plaintiff must prove 4 elements.

• ...a party justifiably relies
• ...to their detriment
• ...on information prepared without reasonable care
• ...by someone who owed the relying party a duty of care

If you put someones name in your certification you automatically remove the barrier of whether or not you owed them a duty of care. If their name is not in the certification they have to prove one more thing in order to win their case.

All that begs the question. To whom do we owe a duty of care?

I can't give you a completely unambiguous answer. But I can tell you that it is much easier for you to be sued when you tell the world you acknowledge that duty. That is exactly what you do when you put their name in the certification.

Larry P

:good: :good: :good:

That's so good I wish I had thought of it.

Larry P

Thanks to your advice from a previous post. :good:

I'll keep my eyes open, should be interesting to see what happens.

-V

Had attorney ask me to put their name in the cert one time . I believe i laughed out loud.

Just got an email on a Alta i turned in weeks ago .Attorney wants the sellers name in the cert .thats a first . i told him since i was hired by the buyer it would be a conflict and would not do that.

Any chance the seller ended up having to carry paper to get the deal to close? If that was the case you'd be certifying to the seller as a lender.

I guess we're just rubes here in Florida (at least where I'm at). Listing the Buyer, Bank, Title Agent and Title Underwriter on a boundary survey for closing is pretty much standard procedure. I don't know of any surveyor who would refuse to do it. I have heard of resisting on the "and successors and or assigns" language.

In Connecticut we certifications come in many forms. In most commercial surveys the attorney will ask for it.

The only name/s that wind up on my paperwork are the one/s on the survey order.