Hi there,
I have some old instruments that are in very good shape and have never had the need to address them other then dusting. I recently acquired an early Berger. While it is in good shape...(all moving parts smooth, works well) it is really dirty from sitting in it's box.
Any suggestions on cleaning solutions? Should I go the whole way and polish the brass?
Any tips and or suggestions are appreciated. For now this is going to become a "decoration/small investment"
Thanks!
> Any suggestions on cleaning solutions? Should I go the whole way and polish the brass?
Definitely do NOT polish the brass. There isn't a better way to absolutely ruin an old instrument than a can of brass polish.
I have a small flotilla of "decoration/small investment" optical surveying instruments. One thing I am proud of is 99% of them are ready for service. I am not a professional collector or repairman. I used these things daily for years and acquired an affection for them. So any suggestion I may make is purely my own preference.
Most older instruments can be disassembled easily, to a point. I generally never go past that point. Unless there is a reason I never break into the barrel. If you do get into the barrel (to clean lenses), be very, very careful. If it has spider-web cross hairs (as opposed to etched cross-hairs) you might have a hard time finding someone to replace them. All the other pivot and trunnion bearing surfaces can be removed and inspected with simple hand tools.
First off, I wouldn't polish the brass. It looks fancy, but it's very unnecessary. The patina tarnish is much more desirable. I use mild dishwashing soap to clean the surfaces. This is just preference. You can use a lot of stuff, just avoid caustic concoctions. And DRY everything. When I say dry, I don't mean a towel. A 150 degree oven for 10 minutes is a better "dry".
Grunge from hand contact usually comes off with a little scrubbing. I use a soft toothbrush...carefully. Any oil buildup should be removed with a mild solvent. I use isopropyl alcohol. I would avoid using toluene like fingernail polish remover, it will remove the glaze on bearing surfaces and shorten their life.
During reassembly mating and bearing surfaces can be lubricated with light machine oil. Singer sewing machine oil is just about right, or an old can of 3 in 1 if you can find it. Don't "over lubricate". If it's brass or a bi-metal union be careful as to how tight you make things. Brass can expand and contract with temperature difference. If you screw something down tight at 50 degrees, it will be TOO tight at 80 degrees.
Just clean them up and keep them tidy. And it's very important to talk to them and let them listen to music. I have an old Buff & Buff level that prefers Mozart. The K&Es like Country 'n Western. Rotate their position regularly to give each one a chance at the "prominent" spot on the shelf. Failure to do so can foster animosity among the instruments. Avoid that if you can...
Spider Web restoration cross-hairs
I remember when I started work being shown an old 4 screw CTS.
I was told about cross-hairs and how they could be replaced in the bush if required.
I never questioned that and took it as gospel.
It sounds feasible so if true is that just a once simple exercise now a lost art?
With regards to cleaning.
I've an old vernier theodolite that had a working life in a coal mine.
It's covered in grime, probably self ignite if put too close to naked flame 😛 , but I'm loath to touch it as out goes all its provenance.
Agree with Kent, just keep the Brasso away.
I agree with what people have been saying, but remember the instrument is yours and make it the way you want.
However, if you use any chemical stripper or polisher, you MUST totally disassemble the instrument and thoroughly clean it when done. ANY residue will stay on the brass and just fester and eat it up.
As to your basic question, don't use 409 or any other chemical cleaner for the same reasons. I happen to like using WD-40 and then wipe it down real good after. It will cut through grease and grime. I also like tooth brushes and sponges with a scotch bright pad on one side. The scotch bright will cut through crud, but be careful as it will scratch finishes if you're not careful.
Slight Hijack, Sorry, Antique Transit Cleaning/Restore
I have an early 1900's Wye level that has been boxed for years. I finally found a vintage tripod for it. Is there any way to restore or protect the black crumbly paint surface? Every time I touch it another little bit falls off. It needs cleaned and oiled but with the finish falling off I am hesitant to do so.
Slight Hijack, Sorry, Antique Transit Cleaning/Restore
> I have an early 1900's Wye level that has been boxed for years. I finally found a vintage tripod for it. Is there any way to restore or protect the black crumbly paint surface? Every time I touch it another little bit falls off. It needs cleaned and oiled but with the finish falling off I am hesitant to do so.
I've had several that did the same thing. As far as I know there's really nothing you can do for the flaking paint.
Interestingly, in my experience this only seems to happen on pre-1920 instruments. The closer you get to WWII, the "better" the paint gets. I'm assuming there was some technological breakthrough with metal prep or paint composition.
I have an older Dietzgen level that has happened to. Funny thing is the paint only flaked off of what was probably exposed to the sun. The paint on the underside of the barrel and mount is intact. Kinda gives it that "two-tone" look.
Stripped and polished brass instruments are "shore-nuff purdy"...but were never really meant to be. Working with "shiny" optical instruments in the full sun would kill your eyes, hence the dark matte finish on these older instruments. I consider it their "uniform" and badge of service.
If it were me, I'd go ahead and clean the instrument and let the finish be what it is. Kinda like a sixty-something year old surveyor's skin...not real pretty, but functional. Those old guns' finishes tell a story. In the realm of professional collectors, original patina is worth more than refinished with both the instrument AND the box. Repair, clean, oil and enjoy.
ps - I just looked at one of my instruments that had flaked paint. You can almost see brush marks where some of the paint has remained. I bet a lot of these old guns were hand painted in the 1900s.
Slight Hijack, Sorry, Antique Transit Cleaning/Restore
The only thing I could suggest is to somehow get a coat of lacquer over it to hold the crumbly paint in place. However, just the handling of it would keep causing more to come off and lacquer of the top would probably look worse.
What is happening is that the metal under the paint is oxidizing and this is what is causing the delamination.
This is probably a good instrument to consider stripping it down of the paint, but not polish. And then let it develop its own patina.
Spider Web restoration cross-hairs
> I remember when I started work being shown an old 4 screw CTS.
> I was told about cross-hairs and how they could be replaced in the bush if required.
> I never questioned that and took it as gospel.
> It sounds feasible so if true is that just a once simple exercise now a lost art?
Yep, done it a dozen times on old K&E Paragon transits as taught by the ancient instrument man. A cocoon of spider's web wound around a piece of cardboard, some beeswax, shellac and spreaders are all that is required in addition to the screwdrivers, etc. peculiar to the instrument. Got to where I could do it and reorient the reticle in less than an hour in the field, depending on shellac drying time.
Why so long you ask? Well, a broken cross-hair is usually caused by the instrument man (tripod shouldered or underarm with instrument forward depending on brush) *banging* the transit against a tree or rock or simply falling down. That meant the whole transit had to be checked out using inversion to adjust out of center bubbles, misaligned standards, trunnion axis knocked out, vertical circle index error, etc. Usually the tests were five minutes time but if the instrument was banged up sometimes 30 more minutes of fiddling could get it back into service, or not. In the latter case we went home for the day and used the regional backup or did busy work until Unit 1 was repaired by us or others.
OK a few times the cross-hair(s) busted in transit on jeep rough road approaches or somehow on commercial air freight deliveries, or mysteriously; not the instrument man's fault. Spider's web reticles were amazingly tough (12 field replacements in 5 years), but the glass etched reticles are bulletproof and eliminated a maintenance issue so they took over the industry.
Spider Web restoration cross-hairs
Thanks Mike.
Interesting information.
Times change, all in the name of progress.
Guess glass etched would be my preference any day.
Hello.
Looking for advice on cleaning and lubricating an older transit. I bought one at garage sale today that I actually want to use. Its probably from the 40's or 50's. Its a little stiff to rotate. If I can get it apart, what should I used to get the old lubricant off and then what should I use to re lubricate the head/gun? Also, what should I used to lubricate the adjustment screws? Please be specific. I am new to this. Thanks
I'm not an expert at all, but I'd say:
Recognize that a half minute at the radius of the circles is less than half a thousandth of an inch, so you have to preserve surfaces and alignments to that tolerance in order to maintain accuracy.
-clean visible surfaces with nothing more abrasive than mild soap and water, with a cloth or at most a soft brush. Don't do anything that alters the patina.
-If lubrication doesn't wipe off then an organic solvent like alcohol or naptha (tar remover) should be ok. Absolutely do not use anything abrasive or scratchy on bearing surfaces.
-Probably a light oil for bearing surfaces. Try to see what was used before. Perhaps powdered graphite?
-If you take it apart enough that you have pieces that look interchangeable or could be installed in another rotation (I'm thinking of the horizontal axis bearing blocks for the vertical motion, for instance), make sure you get them back in the original positions. Some of the bearing surfaces may be worn in to each other and need to have their companions back.
One of the most important thing to consider when working on and adjusting brass and other instruments.
Like the work of a gunsmith, using a tool that fits perfectly is very important to preserve the screw or nut being turned.
Hot water and a brush will clean most anything an instrument collects.
The working conditions, location, temperature, climate and humidity can factor into the right lubricant.
During the early 70s with the Dietzen transit, I can remember using 30W and STP during some very hot late summer months and more often light machine oil as for sewing machines.
Today, my favorite cleaner and lubricant is Remington Oil.
A Harris, post: 436051, member: 81 wrote: One of the most important thing to consider when working on and adjusting brass and other instruments.
Like the work of a gunsmith, using a tool that fits perfectly is very important to preserve the screw or nut being turned.
Hot water and a brush will clean most anything an instrument collects.
The working conditions, location, temperature, climate and humidity can factor into the right lubricant.
During the early 70s with the Dietzen transit, I can remember using 30W and STP during some very hot late summer months and more often light machine oil as for sewing machines.
Today, my favorite cleaner and lubricant is Remington Oil.
I always used watch oil. A little dab on the end of a flat toothpick will lubricate an entire spindle. It is a really thin oil. When applied, you can see it run on the surface it was applied to. I also used an oil that was similar to watch oil that the USBR had at their power plants to lube gauges and other delicate mechanisms. It was the same consistancy as watch oil.
there are a couple of places that can be found that will re-condition and adjust and make the instrument functional. Sort of like what you do when you send in a modern TS to the shop.There are hardly any antiques that the value is improved by cleaning. Old survey instruments are the same. If you want a shiny brass paperweight , why not buy one the repop versions that is already shiney?
Interesting articles about spider web crosshairs.
@mike-marks Do you still remember the procedure for repairing the crosshairs? If so, do you think you could walk me through it? I'm heartened by the idea that it could be repaired in the field and still have a working transit, afterwards. That makes it seem like something I might actually be able to accomplish.
I got here looking for repair services (they've all stopped by now) who could fix the horizontal crosshair on my father's David White 8300 that he used to build our house between '85 and '88. We actually keep needing to USE the thing, but can't because the crosshair came loose. If we can get it fixed, then we can stop renting from Home Depot (though I'll admit, those auto-leveling lasers are almost a joy to use, in comparison).
If it's possible to replace the wire crosshairs with an etched lens version, I'll gladly do that, too, since it'll prevent this from happening again, but one way or another, we'd like to get this one functional again.
*Bump* This appeared on page 2 and may be missed by many.
I have a few old instruments that I've gotten brave with. ALG go-juice seems to work well as a lubricant.?ÿ
