Here's the scenario...our company did an ALTA of an industrial site in 2005 with an update in 2007. We just received a request for a recertification to different names/companies, but without a new policy. Attorney is requesting that we use the previous policy to base this new work on. Is there anything unusual about this/can we recertify to an old policy?
He11 NO!
Nuff said.
> Is there anything unusual about this/can we recertify to an old policy?
Two different questions.
Is this unusual? Not at all. The attorney is asking you to take all the liability if anything has changed since the work was last done. I notice you didn't mention being paid for this recertification.
Ask yourself this. Why would we take on a huge load of liability for free? Am hoping your answer is exactly the one Dave Ingram posted. (Ok, maybe not those exact words but you get the idea.)
Second question. Can you recertify to old policy?
If you choose to do so you can certify that you conducted a field survey of the moon and that I hold title. It wouldn't be wise; but, nothing but good sense prevents you from doing so.
Larry P
The ALTA specs state that you must be provided the MOST CURRENT title insurance commitment report. It can be however old. It does not have to be up to date. When I questioned the ALTA guys on this I was told thet they cannot require their members to get a new report.
Clearly state on the plat that this survey represents only those issues shown in title commitment report number so and so and dated so and so and that is ONLY what you are certifying to. You may state this survey is subject to misindexed, unrecorded data or further documents of which you are unaware that would be revealed by a new title commitment report. Cover your buns by clearly stating on the face of the plat what the client has requested and that that is all you have done.
Thanks. We inquired with an unrelated title attorney and that's exactly what he said.
I don't care how many notes you put on a plat, if you put on a new date your liability clock starts then. And I assume he was wanting new owners, etc, in the "certified to" part of the certificate which means the old title commitment is out of date.
I tell clients I either do it right or I don't do it. I'd encourage you to do the same!
Right, I understand that the clock gets reset, and we are recertifying to the exceptions called out in a 2007 commitment.
> Thanks. We inquired with an unrelated title attorney and that's exactly what he said.
I like to imagine a few years into the future. I imagine myself on the witness stand in court.
The attorney for the plaintiff will be asking me questions that go something like this ...
Her: Are you a professional?
Me: Yes, ma'am.
Her: What is the #1 duty of every professional surveyor in this state?
Me: To protect the public.
Her: In this context, is your client the public?
Me: Yes, ma'am.
Her: And did the service you provide in this case protect the public?
Me: I provided the service my client requested.
Her: So you didn't protect the public?
Me: I protected the public by providing the service my client requested.
Her: The reason we are here today is because the plaintiff (your client) suffered harm because of the service you provided so obviously the public was not protected. Are you saying it is ok for you to not protect the public and to only do what your client asks?
Me: I just did what they wanted.
Her: Let's suppose you break your arm. Suppose too that you know your insurance company won't pay for a new X-Ray to determine the extent of the damage. How do you think your doctor should react when you tell them that they should just use the X-Ray from 5 years ago?
Me: I would want a new X-Ray.
Her: So you would expect your doctor to protect you despite your request that they use old information?
Me: Ah..... uh.... well.....
Her: So you expect professionals to not let their clients dictate the service provided?
Me: Yes, ma'am.
Her: And did you let the client dictate the service you provided despite your knowledge that this could (and in this case did) damage the client?
Everyone has to decide for themselves their level of comfort with "providing what the client requested". Personally, I won't enable clients to shift liability to me in the interest of saving them short term money.
> I don't care how many notes you put on a plat, if you put on a new date your liability clock starts then.
I'm struggling to understand why the attorney wants this. No title company is going to issue a policy without doing a new title search. I'd really like to have the answer to that question before I agreed to do anything. In many cases the attorney asks for an ALTA because he has been told that ALTAs are good surveys, when he really wants a boundary and topo.
My minimum fee for restarting the liability clock is $3000.
They are using the old title, let them use the old survey as is.
They also have a copy in hand or they would not have known to call you.
0.02
"In many cases the attorney asks for an ALTA because he has been told that ALTAs are good surveys, when he really wants a boundary and topo".
In most cases this also applies to the everyday client. They have heard about an ALTA Survey and think this is what they want, but in reality all they want or need is a topo survey that depicts the site conditions.
He11 NO!
AMEN Brother!! NO!
him: and are you going to quit referring me to a "her" and ma'am for the course of this questioning before I take this outside?
You: no....ER...sir?
You should ask the attorney if they reduced their fees because all they had to do was change some names and dates from their previous work? If the answer is no, then ask why would they ask someone to do something they would not do themselves.
Do unto others as you would have them do unto you.