I had a question come up and I can't seem to find any relevant court cases or anything in the Wisconsin Statutes pertaining to this...
If all the elements have been met....Can a landlord claim adverse possession against a neighbor if their tenants have been parking on the neighbor's land?
Thanks!
If you can get access to a Westlaw subscription you can look it up under their topic Adverse Possession.
I think I've seen it discussed before but my memory is fuzzy.
Trailblazer, post: 426551, member: 12701 wrote: I had a question come up and I can't seem to find any relevant court cases or anything in the Wisconsin Statutes pertaining to this...
If all the elements have been met....Can a landlord claim adverse possession against a neighbor if their tenants have been parking on the neighbor's land?
Thanks!
To get adverse possession one of the criteria is to pay taxes on the disputed area. So I would say no. There however could be a claim for a Prescriptive Easement. This has to be litigated to be a valid claim, which is pretty expensive. Requirements for a Prescriptive Easement vary by states in regard to how long the adverse use has been going on. Pretty hard to prove a Prescriptive Easement unless you can find a really slimy Attornet
I suspect that a tenant in possession would only have standing to assert title to the land outside his agreement with the landlord (that would not be adverse). As to the right to continue parking, that likely would be the extent of rights to have ripened - not a fee title.
Adverse possession is an expensive way to gain land that some one believes they have right of use or ownership.
The process takes court action or judge decision for the land title to transfer.
The possible claims vary from state to state and one of the main thing to prove is who has been in control and has used the land.
Use of land for profit and monetary gain without knowledge of a boundary is a clear and notorious claim.
When the boundaries are known and ownership is clear and present, there can be no claim of adverse possession.
0.02
A Harris, post: 426561, member: 81 wrote: Adverse possession is an expensive way to gain land that some one believes they have right of use or ownership.
The process takes court action or judge decision for the land title to transfer.
The possible claims vary from state to state and one of the main thing to prove is who has been in control and has used the land.
Use of land for profit and monetary gain without knowledge of a boundary is a clear and notorious claim.
When the boundaries are known and ownership is clear and present, there can be no claim of adverse possession.
0.02
I agree with everything you said Mr. Harris, except that I believe ownership technically passes once the statute of limitations has been met, not necessarily when a judge recognizes it.
Shawn Billings, post: 426562, member: 6521 wrote: I agree with everything you said Mr. Harris, except that I believe ownership technically passes once the statute of limitations has been met, not necessarily when a judge recognizes it.
So whose decision declares the statutes of limitations has been met.
Court action is necessary to decide ownership in a case of adverse limitation and the judge merely decides if a valid limitation claim exists or not.
The many details of any adverse limitation case can be debated upon endlessly and must be based upon more evidence of a claim that is much more than one claimant's word against another.
Adverse Possession = OCEANH
Open
Continuous
Exclusive
Adverse
Notorious
Hostile
Color of Title is a plus and valid AP on a portion of a deed is grounds for claiming the entire deed.
Statutory Period. In MA, we have 20 years. RI is 10 as I recall. Isn't there a state or two with 7?
Prescription is AP without Exclusivity.
I have heard about other states with some slightly different requirements:
Payment of Taxes
Intent
Technically the title ripens at the end of the Statutory Period, but a Judge is typically required to rule that the requirements have been met. So if you give someone permission to use the land at the 21st year, then they still have the valid title. The Plaintiff has the burden of proof and it can be hard to prove AP. I have helped to have a few claims dismissed.
I am never sure why some claimants choose to bring the Boy Scouts and Girl Scouts into their claims: "I took the Boy Scouts to these woods for camping trips over the 20 year period..." So you encouraged the Boy Scouts to trespass?
I have one now where the claimant ran a home preschool and they used to march in the woods and plant wildflower seeds here and there. Wholesome education there.
A construction company had a sand pit that was a good 60 acres with a survey of the extents that was 19 years old. Their valid title was to 10 or 12 of it. The advertised to expand and I was notified as an abutter (old unbuildable woodlot that may or may not have been partially in the pit). At the public hearing, a neighbor stands up and complains that they use his road when they should be using a different road. A title baron stands up and says that they cannot expand, for he owns the land upon which they wish to expand. Then I stand up. "Not sure where the land is. One surveyor put it here, another there. If the pit is over the line, I'd be more than happy to give the construction company permission to use the pit and if their attorneys need something in writing, I'd be more than happy to review and sign a license."
People looked at me like I had 7 heads. The next day I got a call from their attorney 'Do you know how much you screwed things up out there?" "Yup."
I now know where my woodlot is... about 1000 feet from the pit.
spledeus, post: 426570, member: 3579 wrote: Adverse Possession = OCEANH
Open Continuous Exclusive Adverse Notorious HostileThen I stand up. "Not sure where the land is. One surveyor put it here, another there. If the pit is over the line, I'd be more than happy to give the construction company permission to use the pit and if their attorneys need something in writing, I'd be more than happy to review and sign a license."
People looked at me like I had 7 heads. The next day I got a call from their attorney 'Do you know how much you screwed things up out there?" "Yup."
That's what I thought. The disputed boundary can't be unknown. It has to be known and hostile. I thought Mr. Harris got it exactly opposite of what I recall from law seminars with James Noble Johnson, esq..
Andy Nold, post: 426573, member: 7 wrote: That's what I thought. The disputed boundary can't be unknown. It has to be known and hostile. I thought Mr. Harris got it exactly opposite of what I recall from law seminars with James Noble Johnson, esq..
In some states Intent is required. In MA, you could AP with and ambiguous boundary.
Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk
Andy Nold, post: 426573, member: 7 wrote: That's what I thought. The disputed boundary can't be unknown. It has to be known and hostile. I thought Mr. Harris got it exactly opposite of what I recall from law seminars with James Noble Johnson, esq..
Might have been thinking about boundary line agreements.
Adverse Possession varies, particularly the nuances, it varies by State.
Whether the claimant is required to know they are trespassing may vary. Some States allow claim of right and others require color of title. Claim of right adverse possession will only carry up to the occupation boundary whereas color of title carries with it constructive possession to the described boundaries. Some states, but not all, require tax payment. There may different limitations periods depending on the claim being made.
Leaseholds bring in another level of complication. A lessee may be able to perfect their adverse possession if the lease expired and the lessor did nothing to either renew the lease or eject the lessee before the statute ran out.
I would first see if there is a Wisconsin Real Property Treatise and read the Adverse Possession chapter. Failing that check out Tiffany Real Property under Adverse Possession. A national encyclopedia such as CJS or Am Jur is useful to get a basic background in adverse possession.
When a person knows where their boundary is, they can not make a claim to any other location.
A Harris, post: 426578, member: 81 wrote: When a person knows where their boundary is, they can not make a claim to any other location.
That is true with respect to boundary location but if adverse possession is perfected in a trespass then we would talking about a different boundary.
A lot if people here claiming they know how adverse possesion works, but it is very differnent from state to state, much more so than boundary law.
Parking sounds more like a prescriptive easement to me.
aliquot, post: 426586, member: 2486 wrote: A lot if people here claiming they know how adverse possesion works, but it is very differnent from state to state, much more so than boundary law.
Parking sounds more like a prescriptive easement to me.
It is always up to a judge who has to listen to 2 or more yapping attorneys who may choose to twist or conceal the truth all in the name of advocacy.
Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk
The laws of limitation can extend to longtime usage of a drive or the cutting corners across property to access other land and gain a legal easement (prescriptive easement) that continued use can not be denied.
That process creates an encumbrance to an other person's property and does not pass on title to any land.
Those concrete crossties have become popular to limit that from happening in recent decades.
When people call me about a case of adverse possession and want to pursue it in court, they had best be a long time client with money to burn because such things really try my patience these days.
When taking such a case, get a digital voice recorder or put a large capacity micro sd card in your phone and record everything while talking to everyone on that shows up at the property and everyone you talk with to do with that job and get affidavits from all neighbors, kinfolk and oldtimers that know anything about the mess.
Then get it all transcribed into text to hand to your client's lawyer along with your fee.
You will have done most of his work for him.
Adverse possession means continuous and adverse. If you left your cat there for 21 years and precluded the land owner from parking there you might have a claim. But assuming you drove now and again, how did you prevent the landowner from any use?
Paul in Pa
;););) That is a very long-lived cat. ;););)
I love typo's so much that I try to make sure that I produce several every day just to keep everyone else amused. Thanks for the chuckle, Paul.
