Does an accurate boundary line survey require occupation of, and direct observation of, the endpoints of that line.
No, sometimes it is physically impossible to occupy a point.
Many boundary lines are defined by relationship(s) to remote objects or other lines. The location of a portion of the line can be shown without establishing 'endpoints'. Most States will require monuments at each end where possible.
More directly, it depends. Give us more information and we may be able to help.
We are currently in a dispute about the location of the boundary between our house and the next door neighbor. They had a survey done a few weeks ago, and that survey shows that the line is well on our side of a fence that we had installed many years ago.
Prior to installing the fence, I had a pin finder locate the two corner pins that defined the boundary line back in the 1960s. We pulled a string between the two corners, and I have every reason to believe that the string was straight. The fence got installed completely on our side of the string, so I only worried that the pins we located long ago were in the wrong position. The neighbor's surveyor confirmed the location of the corner pins, so I have confidence that the true line would show that the fence is entirely on our property.
I originally sought to have a line-of-sight survey done, but every surveyor I contact voices a reluctance to do that and offers a different method of marking the line.
Please advise.
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> Prior to installing the fence, I had a pin finder locate the two corner pins that defined the boundary line back in the 1960s. We pulled a string between the two corners, and I have every reason to believe that the string was straight. The fence got installed completely on our side of the string, so I only worried that the pins we located long ago were in the wrong position. The neighbor's surveyor confirmed the location of the corner pins, so I have confidence that the true line would show that the fence is entirely on our property.
>
> I originally sought to have a line-of-sight survey done, but every surveyor I contact voices a reluctance to do that and offers a different method of marking the line.
>
> Please advise.
Although your above statement is helpful for surveyors it raises other questions. The phrase "I had a pin finder locate the two corner pins that defined the boundary line back in the 1960s." is a warning to surveyors. Currently all locations in the United States require surveyors to have a license issued by the state. Earning a license requires education and years of experience supervised by a licensed surveyor. However, over the years numerous "pin finder" services have done jobs similar to what you describe. These "pin finders" are usually not licensed surveyors and often find the wrong pins.
Did you tell the surveyors you contacted that you know where your pins are and all you want is a line marked between the two points? If that is the case minimum standards of practice would likely require the surveyor to first take a number of measurements to other pins/monuments in the area. This is required to verify that the two pins you know about are what you believe them to be. The surveyor is required by law and/or regulations to independently verify the points before using them. Only then would the surveyor be able to complete staking the line.
Using the pins without verifying they are the correct points would be like a doctor writing a prescription for someone they have never seen. In both cases it is wrong and could result in the doctor or surveyor having their license removed.
1. Do not let the dispute get out of control. You are neighbors and you will be neighbors after the dust settles. If this has turned sour, try to turn it back to not so sour.
2. Someone told you where the corners were and you set a fence based on that information. Clean and simple. If that someone was wrong, then they are at fault. Not you. Not the neighbor.
3. Technically the surveyor for your neighbor is supposed to be an impartial party. That surveyor should be made aware of the pins used to set the fence. That surveyor should locate the pins and determine what they relate to.
4. Where are the harms? Does the fence impede the neighbor from reasonable use of their property? Would losing that strip of land cause you grief and hardship? If everyone at the table is in a reasonable mindset, then you can settle on an agreement about the fence.
5. There are so many other questions about this scenario. Unfortunately, if you want to keep the fence, you should engage the services of a professional surveyor to verify the efforts of the other surveyor.
Keep it civil. While you may have a fence on the neighbor's land it does not sound like you set it with malfeasance in mind.
> 1. Do not let the dispute get out of control. You are neighbors and you will be neighbors after the dust settles. If this has turned sour, try to turn it back to not so sour.
>
:good:
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> 3. Technically the surveyor for your neighbor is supposed to be an impartial party. That surveyor should be made aware of the pins used to set the fence. That surveyor should locate the pins and determine what they relate to.
>
> 4. Where are the harms? Does the fence impede the neighbor from reasonable use of their property? Would losing that strip of land cause you grief and hardship? If everyone at the table is in a reasonable mindset, then you can settle on an agreement about the fence.
>
> 5. There are so many other questions about this scenario. Unfortunately, if you want to keep the fence, you should engage the services of a professional surveyor to verify the efforts of the other surveyor.
>
> Keep it civil. While you may have a fence on the neighbor's land it does not sound like you set it with malfeasance in mind.
Keep it civil! :beer:
If this was Arkansas, I would suggest some fried catfish...cold beer...all the neighbors...the surveyor(s)...mr pin finder!
It wouldn't take long to 'fix'!
DDSM:beer:
> Does an accurate boundary line survey require occupation of, and direct observation of, the endpoints of that line.
Chiming in a bit late here and I find the reference to "accuracy of a boundary line" pretty much an oxymoron, but at the end of the day your state and professional integrity will dictate that yes or no and final product. Let the neighbor say contrary via another surveyor who hopefully finds the same results you found, and definitely not a legal team.
Me, I like to walk the lines as best as I can, but some you can't walk. But I'll back up every single monument I've ever set (only a gazillion or so)
> Does an accurate boundary line survey require occupation of, and direct observation of, the endpoints of that line.
The reason that no one wants to do the survey that way is that there is no reason to do so.
Additionally, the line would need to be cleared of all obstructions. Also, in order to verify any corners, they would need to be tied to other monuments.
This reminds me of one afternoon when I staked a line. The adjoining land owner not paying for my services didn't like the stake I had set on the midpoint of the line. He insisted I hadn't set a straight line. There was a tree, a fence and a retaining wall crossing the line. These combined to make it impossible to see between the corners, and with all the nearly parallel lines, there was no way to not have optical illusions about the staight line.
He just couldn't figure out how I could set a straight line without being on the corners. I don't know how a person that doesn't understand eight grade math affords a house, but there it is.
The biggest obstacle to peace is the emotional baggage of one's own homestead. A home builder buying a tear downer almost never fails to make even the most difficult dispute go away easily. That is because they only have a financial investment, not an emotional one.
But, yes, I can stake a line without sitting on the corners.
I can set out a straight line without occupying either end through the wonder of trigonometry.
every time I set 2 points, it IS a straight line.... except when it's on the latitudinal curve....:-D
Could I sign up for a 'boundary line issue' in Arkansas? mmm... catfish and beer.
There you go again referring to mythology instead of the real world.
How do you know a line is really straight, the littlest thing can affect it like the tidal pull of the moon.