"What we are dealing with is a transaction that occurred some 30 yrs ago. There were monuments placed on the ground, are well known, and established. The persons who bought the land, saw the monuments, and said: Ugg, yep, that's what I am buying" Now, we come along, in 2015, with GPS, and laser surveying instruments, and we find that the actual dimensions between the monuments vary, by 3-5 feet. They AGREED to the monuments, but signed the deed, ASSUMING that they were one and the same. This is like agreeing to buy a 1972 VW beetle, but getting title to a 1969 VW beetle. It was an oversight. The paperwork needs corrected, but, you have to keep the 1972 bug you bought".
The point is, you did not carefully read the papers you signed, and carefully measure around the property. You assumed. Something has to give. the point is, you DID see the monuments, agreed to them, and assumed the papers were correct.
Now, we all know that measurements contain errors. Some are big, some are small. But, you have to hold to one, or the other. In this case, we hold monuments....."
I gave that one yesterday.
N
What percentage of people actually see the monuments of their property before they buy and who typically shows it to them?
Better yet...what percentage of land owners have never seen all of the monuments that define their property?
Monuments must hold. IF... they are the original monuments.
Can acquiescence and practical location govern IF... the monuments are not visible?
ie., buried???
Sometimes, they can. If the original transaction was monumented. And, those buried mons are original.
JEFLS, post: 333812, member: 1771 wrote: Monuments must hold. IF... they are the original monuments.
Can acquiescence and practical location govern IF... the monuments are not visible?
ie., buried???
I don't recall the case name but yes, sometimes. The owner may be deemed to have relied on the monuments if they were in place at the time of purchase.
Nate The Surveyor, post: 333802, member: 291 wrote: "What we are dealing with is a transaction that occurred some 30 yrs ago. There were monuments placed on the ground, are well known, and established. The persons who bought the land, saw the monuments, and said: Ugg, yep, that's what I am buying" Now, we come along, in 2015, with GPS, and laser surveying instruments, and we find that the actual dimensions between the monuments vary, by 3-5 feet. They AGREED to the monuments, but signed the deed, ASSUMING that they were one and the same. This is like agreeing to buy a 1972 VW beetle, but getting title to a 1969 VW beetle. It was an oversight. The paperwork needs corrected, but, you have to keep the 1972 bug you bought".
The point is, you did not carefully read the papers you signed, and carefully measure around the property. You assumed. Something has to give. the point is, you DID see the monuments, agreed to them, and assumed the papers were correct.
Now, we all know that measurements contain errors. Some are big, some are small. But, you have to hold to one, or the other. In this case, we hold monuments....."I gave that one yesterday.
N
What if 30 years later the monuments are not what the Plat says they should be (spikes instead of 3/4 inch pins) and are over 100 feet off from where the deed says they should be? Distances between the spikes are short of record (probably slope chained), but some folks are occupying the areas they think they own. What if some of the lot pins fall outside of the boundary that the original developer owned? What if the Plat looks reasonable, but the survey on the ground maybe fraudulently done and neither relate by over 100 feet? Do the monuments hold over the Plat and Deeds?
Skeeter1996, post: 333853, member: 9224 wrote: What if 30 years later the monuments are not what the Plat says they should be (spikes instead of 3/4 inch pins) and are over 100 feet off from where the deed says they should be? Distances between the spikes are short of record (probably slope chained), but some folks are occupying the areas they think they own. What if some of the lot pins fall outside of the boundary that the original developer owned? What if the Plat looks reasonable, but the survey on the ground maybe fraudulently done and neither relate by over 100 feet? Do the monuments hold over the Plat and Deeds?
In that case; five paces or ten?
In my case they did. They were about 3.5' less than 125 feet, in steep country, with solid occupation. The concept has limits... in a contextual sense. It all came from a common grantor.
N
A few of what I have seen and learned in courtrooms......
"If I had a nickle for every time......I'd have a million $$$$$"
Yes, that if my fee for appearing in court, per day.
Things can go in most any direction in some courts and from the stand, you can hear the darnedest claims for the first time from the client you talked to yesterday.
"Tho rather worn and tattered since set, those monuments are the same ones and in the same place I set them way back when......
The question required a yes or no answer Mr Harris, Judge this witness is non responsive......
Judge, I have not been ask any question that relates to my findings as a surveyor and I can not understand the attorney's need to call me a liar and exhibit a fit of rage when I do not agree with him........"
When original monuments are proven to be the original monuments, they rule.
Other factors of land use and occupation and duration of control can sway some courts into awarding very confusing verdicts from the "first" court.
The higher the court the quicker the Judge begins to recognize the situation and actually apply law.