Need a little help or brainstorming

The perimeter has more jogs than a saw tooth blade.In 100 feet. It was so bad I questioned the engineer. But thats the design. We only need every 50 ft around the site except include all break points the changes not to exceed a .10 ft. Well i did a best fit on a few 100 ft lines gues what feet off. The line. I am just trying to make sure no point is over 50 ft from the next lol.

I don't really understand what you're trying to do.

Slow down, take a breath between sentences, maybe throw a rough sketch out there, etc.

I'm not clear on the purpose of these 50 foot points. Is it a grid to collect topo points on for DTM creation?

Yeah I'm with Mr. Cow on this one...

Get the first topo done, don't worry about the 50-foot spacing but make sure you have enough density for it. Then use the Create Grid of Points command:

https://help.autodesk.com/view/CIV3D/2023/ENU/?guid=GUID-783CB727-F0EC-42EB-9CCD-70A33C91A39D

This will pull the surface elevations at those grid points, and it will be a consistent 50-feet throughout the entire site. There's your baseline survey.

After that, just use those points each time you go back to evaluate/asbuilt. You could stake to 'em....or you could just do another dense topo, create a new surface, import the same grid points and use the "Elevations from Surface" command to pop updated elevations at the same locations.

Either way I'd bet a month's pay it won't make any difference to the client.

Draw the grid and lines you need as a dxf background.

In the field compute whatever position you need on each line - probably the intersections - use stake-out to guide you to the point.

Measure

(i'd point out that you can use the Access Snap-To find the starts, ends and intersections of background linework)

I know this is silly and yes thats exactly how i was thinking. But the people above me say i need to create the grid points that we can stake out and get the elevation for that then. So i get a design file No Vertical and its just polygons basically. Imagine your crew went out and to a shot around a pond at every change in direction. I mean half a foot sometimes then 30 feet sometimes around every root. Thats what the perimeter is like now. Internal is not as bad. I first just offset lines at 50 ft. Trim and extend then comp the points along all of those and intersections etc no big deal not had. Had to deleted a few un needed ones at angles i could. Timed myself got point count. Did again by using the tbc elevate points to a surface. Basically created a dummy flat surface exploded those renamed points to something i can track timed and point count. Now i am trying to do it in civil 3d. Lol. I will check that link tomorrow and give it a shot. Time it takes etc. I don’t understand why i am doing this before the topo either. If we did topo its a no brainer the grid elevate points from surface grid is golden. What i do know is in TBC i can create 34 less points on 1 section and along the perimeter of that section and have it done in 15 minutes tops. Same offsetting lines then do it takes 20 minutes. And more points and to keep in mind field crews numbering in a logical way. Trust me i know i am an idiot and dumb as a rock. But i am always looking to use my free time to do these little time in motion studies to eliminate the 5 minutes or less process as doing what i did today i know thats over an hour saved on 1 project and we have 10 more on the way just like it. In my situation i was hoping for a grid from a polygon type command. Maybe i will try and write a TML to intergrate the grid surface points command with the interval from cad line all in one. In theory that would work. Also how civil 3d would do this. Will it take a non elevated polygon and create points every 50 ft inside and along the lines or would you need to offset lines and do it along the lines . Thanks for the link i will surely look into it for sure. I know this gave @holy-cow a GOOD Laugh. I love it. But i have to have this comped before crews go out. So they can stake each darn point horizontally and record the existing elevation at that point. In which i will drop those points not a surface down and down again for 6 different layers. Then come back up again so many. See this is a job for a drone or atv continuous topo. Then do the next level and compare surfaces.

Oh believe me what we truly have to deliver could almost be completed by just the surface and exactly what you are saying in Trimble Access report could be added as a table to the map and bam all done. I did that same thing on a parking lot as built at subgrade. On my own time and brought that in and nope thats not how we do it. Even though it matched exactly what they did and i did it in less time in field and office comps. I didn’t even have a grid. I did load the break line as a dxf for the swells in drawing so i peppered it real well. Then just used the back of curb straight line and added my offsets as i went along. I was working part time then for a different company trying to get use to trimble access and the tsc7. Didn’t take me to long. I aggree we have software when utilized now days that can truly cut out a lot of time. As long as you pay attention and have an understanding of what and when to do it.

Yes pretty much but they have a tenth of a foot hz and vt. As they cut down those same points hz have to be everytime on each layer. As we have to show anything over a tenth vertical on final drawings weekly so they can fix before going up or down to the next level. Yes each layer will get a surface and contours. Volumes each time. And then final as built of each layer in a huge plan set at end of project. Its nuts i know. I am with everyone else. Do a darn topo. Create a surface. Then next level do same compare surface flag the dozer if its to high as you walk the site get it fixed and be done. All staking to a dtm or surfaces etc.

Sorry. I posted this while the ladies were shopping for shoes and a dress lol. Daughter has a dance coming up. I will try and post a sketch tomorrow. It’s not that i don’t know how to compute a grid along and inside a irregular polygon it what’s the most efficient way and how to in civil 3d or Trimble business center.

There is the real world and then there is the world according to software. They are not equal no matter who wrote the software and how well it has been vetted. Have already donned by asbestos undies, so fire away, fellow surveyors.

I would tend to forget about the boundaries and all the jigs and jags. I would set up a 50' grid based on any criteria I deem appropriate and make sure that everything within the boundaries is included and that anything within 50' of any point on any boundary is included. Extra data would be welcome. The data is either valid or it is not. It doesn't matter if the data falls within some internal polygon or not. Use it to guide the process required.

A major consideration is the "texture" of the site. Is this the Bonneville Salt Flats or highly erosive shale deposits with sharp cliffs or triangulated drapes from the high points to the low points? Are there trees that produce numerous above-ground root systems that complicate the accuracy requested? Or, is this an urban brownscape?

I agree however the polygon in this instance is the edge of where it must be returned to exactly the same elevation it was at same points before all this mess is finished and it is kind of an outlier type job. Most of that is the clients request and requirements unfortunately and they are stuck in a time warp. I could create an excel simple sheet and create the points no issues really its simple math. And its not just a topo but a mess. I have done one of these already. Its a nightmare to manage. The same exact point number with 14 different elevations in one freaking area. The work is not hard its a cake job. But keeping crews using the right files at right time is a mess especially when you have a site that has multiple sections or zones with same point numbers and at different stages. Which is why I pushed so hard to use a surface to surface type of comparison vs points. In one day i had 10 different field job files that had 5 to 200 points used and many of those points were same name with different horizontal and or vertical at same hz positions. I did manage to get them to allow me to not have 10 point number 1 in different spots. The last site was about 25 acres total. 8 different levels and then some additional levels of different materials. I have some better ideas now how to prepare vs last time i came in halfway through and everyone was learning. I am trying to use the tools i have. Software hardware my crusty old brain to be as proficient as possible as this is a job that at minimum a couple hours here and there through out the day everyday some deliverable has to go out. They were last time had one cad tech devoted almost full time when I hired on i got about 3 days of fire hose and was on my own. I failed a bunch but learned a lot. All those jogs. I did exactly what you said. I basically offset the line outside and created a point at each segment and then created a best fit line then my grid. I had more not less. Was told that would not work we had to be exact. On perimeter. As its is just outside perimeter has over 2000 points some make sense corners bends. Some are half a foot apart. Now i ran a dozer scraper motor grater coming up as a kid. Heck i road a 3 wheeler and ran a scraper building hwy 72 as a teenager. No way no equipment operator is going to worry about that darn jog i know. It’s ridiculous. A bend yeah he will get those and corners etc. Its a mess. Lol. I think its blown way out of proportion from the people dictating how we do our job.

Had 8 plats to check today for my ls. With comments from client. Silly things from probably an intern like the symbol on legend did not change from pipe vs nail or whatever. Legend sais x unless otherwise noted. Same symbol and noted what was there. Plat mis closed .01. Ft. Yeah its 1:112000 precision or 1:80000. My ls on that project is like geezers i said let me call please i will solve this. He laughed and said thank you for the notes. I will add it to my list. Some things are just baffling to me. I like working with him just flat out common sense he turns me loose to fail and when i hit a snag he walks me through it. All boundary stuff for him. Multiple projects two states. So i get to learn a lot from him. My other boss is awesome to. He is just swamping. I get e new boss next month as one of my bosses is go e to a different place. So lots of learning coming.

I do wish i had a year with nothing but boundaries to do period. Straight up rural surveys. Now i am doing research 1 minute checking some data the next troubleshooting some darn traverse or control issue from out of state then comps .

I'm still not real clear, but I'm gathering that your engineer is demanding that you deliver topo points on an exact 50 foot grid. Sigh. Ours is not to reason why, ours is but to do or die.....

You could draw up a grid in C3d and create points on a 50 foot grid by snapping to the intersection points. Then stake those points out and collect a topo point on the spot. The stakeout point calcs could be prepared in an hour or so, but the field work would be very time consuming. You could do as JimCox proposes, that would save only the hour of point calcs.

The process I would follow to do this is as follows:

1. Survey as necessary and create an accurate surface model of the site.

2. Draw a 50 foot grid over the surface model. Probably cardinal lines falling on the exact 50 foot coordinates, but that is a matter of taste.

3. Using the "elevation from surface" function of the point creation menu in C3d, I'd click on each of the intersection points of the grid to create the points. The elevations of the surface model at those points would be extracted and added to the points. Presuming that the surface model is accurate the gridded points will be correct.

wow...

this is almost as bad as one of the older and in charge surveyors I used to work for demand that we put the gps receiver upside down for resetting the initialization...mind you this was with r12/r12i and last year...I left that behind...

I wonder if you could use a GIS application and create a nearest neighbor grid based on the polygon boundaries and set the 50ft distance for the separation values....

hmmm.

That nearest neighbor is exactly what i am looking for. See i need points on a grid and don't need any surface period to get started. If I only had Arc now lol. Yeah this is not our fault boss or company. Its just what the client wants and thats the way we wish do this . They are paying and such. Yeah just no fun. I thought many cas or whatever could be able to compute a grid from just a 1d polygon and i just didn’t know what command. Lol.