I believe Topcons's Magnet Field is a very good software product, it has many features I've never seen in data collection, but needs some improvement. On most small projects it performs OK. But on large project, that require high accuracies it fails often. I'm told that we will have the rare opportunity in working with Topcon rep's and developers to address the issues I've stated below. But why stop at just our narrow insight into the software. If any of you have issues or concerns, please explain them in detail and I'll see if we can add them to our list in an effort to improve the software for all of us. I don't want this be a Topcon Magnet bashing event, or a Trimble vs. Topcon. Let's just take advantage of this opportunity to improve the product. Most of these issue are with the use of different prism constants and turning 8 sets of angles. Which I know most of do NOT do on a daily basis. But on large projects, it is required.
Magnet Issues version 2.6 and 2.7.1 on Tesla:
1. Magnet has limit of 5 sets in set collection. For 2nd order control we are required to turn 8 sets. 1st order require 16 sets. This can NOT be done with Magnet.
2. Prism constant often does NOT revert to saved setting at back sight when doing a check back sight.
3. When performing a backsight in middle of setup in robotic mode. We may be several hundred feet away. Tell Magnet to Turn to BS, perform check. The instrument does NOT return to the foresight. TopSurv did this well. In Magnet the users often can NOT even use the RC5 button to unlock on backsight, and begin search. User has to manually turn instrument off backsight, with Magnet RC buttons, then press RC5 search.
4. Would like to see a one click option to change the prism constant in Topo and Stakeout menus. Similar to prism height option.
5. When performing a SET collection with Tesla, unable to collect more than 4 sets before Tesla often freezes or gives an error instrument in wrong face. No problems turning 5 sets to a single foresight with Panasonic ToughPad using Windows 7x64 OS and Magnet 2.6.
6. Magnet is unable to store more than one prism constant when performing set collection to more than one foresight, with different prism constants.
7. Would like to see a user option in RAW data for prism constant. With robotic instruments we often change the prism constant as much as we change rod heights. We should be able to edit the prism constant in raw data, then recompute. Just as we can with rod height and instruments heights.
8. There are many fixed permanent prisms set throughout the Tappan Zee bridge project, used for deformation monitoring. When using RC5 search function, the PS robot will often track to Leica prisms and not track to the ATP1 Topcon prism under the RC5.
9. When a user enters a new code in Topo, then press enter or the check mark. The code does NOT get set in the code box. Must re-select the code a second time to have Magnet accept the proper code in box. This happens only with Magnet on Panasonic ToughPad in PC version. Code options are
Default New Type = Point
Data Entry = Codes
Code w/ description toggle ON
Allow Custom and Allow Persistent Control Codes toggles ON
10. List of predefined prisms is dimmed and NOT assemble when in optical prismless configuration. Often we use the robot in manual mode, but the stored prisms are not available to us as they are when using same instrument with Magnet in robotic mode.
11. Installed Magnet 2.7.1 on a Panasonic ToughPad win 7x32 a few months ago, had consistent crashes on ToughPad. Error launching MF.exe file. Went back to Magnet 2.6. Installed recently on ToughPad with Win 7 x64 to give another try. No problems, so far no crashes.
12. When upgrading from 2.6 to 2.7.1, the file format of Magnet is not backwards compatible. TZC has 7 controllers. If there are a mix of 2.6 and 2.7x version, we found no way to save a 2.7.1 back to a 2.6 compatible Magnet file.
13. In Magnet 2.7.1 PC version the max number of sets is still 5, in SET Collection. Pat Moran said in PC version he was using, he had seen max numbers of sets at 10. We do NOT see more than 5.
14. Magnet does allow us to connect Peripherals > External Laser >Leica Disto D8 with bluetooth. Why is it that Magnet connects ONLY to a Leica Disto D8 range finder, and NOT other Leica Disto with bluetooth such as E7500i?
15. Would like to see a user defined path for opening and creating new jobs. We often use My Documents folder for all jobs on Tesla, so files sync with Windows Mobile Device Center. On a ToughPad we create a subst G: drive and store/open all files there, so they are sync’d with Google Drive Cloud.
16. When importing DGN or DWG files sometimes circles appear as half-moons. Often line strings (which are not poly lines) do NOT come into Magnet.
17. Why are end users NOT notified via email when a new release of Magnet is available? We pay $500 for Topcon Total Care, but have check the site weekly to see if an update is available.
18. Pole mount for Tesla is not rigid enough. Tesla is too heavy for the Ram mount ball.
19. No rigid pole mount available for the Panasonic ToughPad with a large capacity battery.
20. ToughPad does NOT work well in rain conditions. Rain drops trigger screen control. Problems persist even when ToughPad Screen Mode set to Touch (Water).
21. Have seen at least three bad GPS initializations (Hiper V and GR5) with Magnet. Both off by 3.8ft in northing. One occurred at 13 miles from base to rover. Other two occurred less than 2 miles baseline, but under some canopy conditions.
None Magnet related. Topcon Pocket 3d.
22. Font size and resolution are NOT formatted correcting when using Panasonic ToughPad with Pocket 3d v11. Font is too small. Resolution is too small in default window size, and screen is stretched out to far when window is maximized at resolution.
Large jobs are a problem with Magnet . Program just spins unusable for us . We had two Teslas both did it on large stakeout projects , had to wait on the data collector to stop spinning, cost us a bunch of time. Program appears too bloated for current handhelds . Needs much improvement speed wise
Small jobs no problem works great and agree its a great software for the most part .
rw5 export is not correct with doubled angles reported incorrectly , reported a year ago no fix .
Topcon support is non existent . not bashing just the facts .
I have no experience with it other than watching yours crash in Brooklyn.
But the feedback I get from my guys is that it needs more work and is ill suited for the task at hand. It was probably released too early.
Computes dramatically incorrect scale factors. Reverts to rapid mode without being told to. Assigns scale factors when the grid to ground is not selected.
FYI we got the same song and dance on the office software. It is still useless. The problems we listed and discussed were ignored and a few more have been introduced.
I'm not Topcon bashing. I'm sharing real world experiences...
I have never tried it...but it sounds like you have a great opportunity..if they listen...let us know if they do...I have been telling TDS for years about some issues with their software, they never bothered to respond. My experience is they will tell you it will "Be in a future upgrade" or added to a "wishlist" as in wishful thinking it will ever happens.
I'm sure I have more but to follow are a couple quick ones.
1. when staking points to line, the routine works great but the point that is collected once you stake it does not come up as a coordinate in the export file. Instead of a Northing, Easting, Elevation etc... it provides what appears to be almost the RAW data of the PTL stakeout (i.e. distance left or right of line, distance along line etc...). While that is great information to have, it does not belong in the coordinate output of the file and obviously does not allow the points to import properly.
2. This may have been addressed by now but I seem to remember that when switching to prismless mode, the rod height stays at the last rod height. Me personally, I feel that the rod height should automatically switch to zero for prismless shots and then revert back to the last known rod height in prism mode.
3. As you mentioned with Topcon Total Care - I have noticed that I have posted issues on their site and there are often no responses from Topcon or they take forever to reply. I have no problem paying the $ 500 if I feel that we are getting a return for the money. From posts on their site I can see that others are also frustrated.
4. from what I understand, at least some of the performance issues people are seeing is related to the software trying to "re-draw" the points in the background even when not in map mode. We have to turn off all the prompts in the map and then our large files speed up quite a bit. Still not very quick but with the toggles on you can hit a prompt and then sit down for 5 minutes before its done thinking - not a great way to make money.
5. One of our crews had an issue with Magnet 2.7 not applying a rod height change in stakeout. they noticed it when staking on relatively flat ground and changed the rod height and the cuts/fills were not accounting for the change in height. Did not work until they jump out of stakeout and go back in - this could be very dangerous and costly.
I have not experienced any problems with scale factor or rapid mode. I do use these both very often and have checked the scale factors. The settings are a bit confusing, but once set and understand they work for me.
Gregg,
1. I see no problem with storing and the exporting of a point to line saved shot. You just need to toggle OFF the PTL switch when you export your data. Try it. I've had several people ask me that same question.
2. I'm afraid this target height issue is as designed by the software techs. But I'll see if they can add a user selectable switch to enable all prismless shots to default with 0 rod height. The software does already done de ault all prism less shots to use a 0 prism constant.
3. I agree Total care needs improvement.
4. That's possible. I see much smaller files and some speed improvement when CAD files are imported as backgrounds.
5.I have not experience d this rod height problem. I will test it in surface staking.
Lee Green
Definetly some things I will watch out for, thanks for the info, Gregg. Being an old TDS Hp48 guy, I find that some of the functions that worked well on the old Survey Pro are no longer on the Magnet. I always liked the DC to prompt me for rod heights AFTER the shot (if you choose) vs having to make sure you know what the rod will be BEFORE the shot (if this is a function, I haven't found the button) Also, I can't seem to keep the DC in traverse mode, ie, moving the set up ahead automatically. Again, I am just now entering the learning curve so somewhere that might be a function I haven't found yet. Good post, printing this out and putting it in with the DC for future reference.
-JD-
JD,
In the instrument configuration you can enable prompts for rod height. I believe it is on last page.
There is NO traverse mode per say. Just need to hit the Traverse button in Survey Topo, so it will advance your setup.
Hey JD, if you can set me with up an Alaskan moose hunt, I'll come up there and do Topcon training with you for. I even have frequent flyer mikes to cover the plane ticket.
Lee Green
> 3. As you mentioned with Topcon Total Care - I have noticed that I have posted issues on their site and there are often no responses from Topcon or they take forever to reply. I have no problem paying the $ 500 if I feel that we are getting a return for the money. From posts on their site I can see that others are also frustrated.
> 4. from what I understand, at least some of the performance issues people are seeing is related to the software trying to "re-draw" the points in the background even when not in map mode. We have to turn off all the prompts in the map and then our large files speed up quite a bit. Still not very quick but with the toggles on you can hit a prompt and then sit down for 5 minutes before its done thinking - not a great way to make money.
> 5. One of our crews had an issue with Magnet 2.7 not applying a rod height change in stakeout. they noticed it when staking on relatively flat ground and changed the rod height and the cuts/fills were not accounting for the change in height. Did not work until they jump out of stakeout and go back in - this could be very dangerous and costly.
hmm... Sounds a lot like Topsurv 8... I guess somethings never change. Good to know.
Thanks Lee,
I was going through the software with one of the guys and could swear we tried that toggle for the PTL and then exported the points again and still did not have coordinates. I will go through it again.
Im curious what you use as your raw data export. We have tried both .rw5 and .raw and one thing that really stands out is that the backsight checks it is displaying in the raw are definitely not correct. Almost every check is a couple thousandths and I keep thinking, damn these guys are good. Not that they are not doing a good job but I know the vertical is not checking by 0.001' almost every time.
I think you may have mentioned but it would be great to see the prism constant logged in the raw so that you can tell if shots were prism or non-prism. Or, that the raw would let you know when a point is shot non prism.
Thanks again
No problem but I say thank Lee for starting this post!
Glad someone feels our pain and may be able to get Topcon to listen.
I have to read through his initial post again to see which of those issues we are experiencing also.
In general the software works well for most of our needs. I really like being able to perform a weighted average of points we collect with RTK so we can take redundant shots and look for outliers.
Gregg,
The prism constant is stored in the Magnet Raw Data file, but not exported in any of the Exchange formats that I know of.
I export the RAW format, then import in to Bentley InRoads.
My backsight checks appear OK in RAW format. Maybe vertical is the problem. In this job I was NOT running verticals.
Example:
--BS check 1516 - 1502:ZE86.44020,SD118.876,HD err= 0.009,VD err= -0.001
--BS Circle Check : horizontal angular err= 0.00010, vertical angular err= 0.00000
The HD error was actually 0.009 in this case.
Lee Green
Thanks Lee
Right now all the moose are up high, get another good snow they'll come down low ..... oh wait, the season's over! Get my cabin fixed, we'll go shoot one out the front door!
Thanks for the tips!
-JD-
Lee,
Below is a sample of the RAW backsight checks.
By the way this is on an OS-102 with on-board Magnet.
This is on a job that we are staking out proposed boring locations for soil samples so while we are holding elevations we are not really worried about them and accuracy is not that big of a concern.
For this type of work I know the guys are not using tripods, they are just getting a backsight with the pole and staking the 3-4 points in the woods they can get from that setup.
So I know that there is no way they are getting vertical checks as good as shown below.
They are typically seeing a couple hundredths at each backsight.
Perhaps it is more of an Onboard issue but I believe we are getting the same thing when using our 2600 collector.
Thanks
--MAGNET Field Jun 27, 2014 (MAGNET Field V2.5.0.0) Version 2.7 (build 121402)
LS,HI5.420,HR5.700
BK,OP347,BP348,BS327.0245,BC0.0000
BD,OP347,BP348,AR0.00000,ZE89.58140,SD379.445
--Backsight HR:5.700
--BS check 347 - 348:ZE89.58130,SD379.455,HD err= 0.010,VD err= 0.002
--BS Circle Check : horizontal angular err= 0.00010, vertical angular err= 0.00010
BK,OP2250,BP347,BS39.5224,BC0.0000
--Backsight HR:5.200
BD,OP2250,BP347,AR0.00000,ZE90.18300,SD393.530
--Backsight HR:5.200
--BS check 2250 - 347:ZE90.18290,SD393.530,HD err= 0.002,VD err= 0.002
--BS Circle Check : horizontal angular err= 0.00010, vertical angular err= 0.00010
Gregg,
I will let Topcon know about the vertical error in raw data. I noticed yesterday on a project where I am running verticals. The software does computed the correct horizontal and vertical error when display to user at time the backsight is shot or checked. But does NOT export the correct vertical in the raw field file.
Lee Green
Most of you know I am a strong advocate for Topcon products, but it appears I just need to reiterate that here for some that are seeing only this post of mine on this forum. I own all Topcon equipment (Robot, TS, GPS, Levels, mmGPS, Magnet Tools and Field). So in no way am I trying to hurt sales or discourage use. Infact I feel this software is superior to most in the industry. As I mentioned in the preface to this message, the software works great in small projects. It just has a few short comings on the larger projects, and can become even better when these short comings are corrected. As you all know I have answered lot's of Topcon questions on this forum and RPLS.com, for many years.
Lee Green
My opinion is that if you are a contractor, a labor foreman or a Grading foreman it's the right tool.
- Why can you weighted average two or more shots in GPS but not with a total station? Minor niggle but when I'm doing a detail survey I find it easier to take a shot either side of a power pole and then average the two to get it spot on. Definitely easier to do that than changing to distance offset, etc, etc.
- When multiple points are selected from the map, why are the codes of those points not displayed anymore? They used to be. Now, only the point number is displayed in the list and to ensure you have the correct point you have to zoom right in and select only the exact one you want.
- I usually upload a comma delimited text file with pointnumber,east,north,elevation,code format. In the initial version of Magnet a point without an elevation was given a default of 0.000. This was great. The latest version craps up if you do not have an elevation and have a coordinate system and geoid selected. As I do a lot of boundary work where elevation is of no importance it is annoying to now have to ensure that all points have an elevation before uploading them whereas before I did not have to worry.
Overall pretty good. Light years ahead of SDR+ and the other Sokkia crap that came before.
