That's funny, I didnt see lines 4-7 from your explanation in the problem, nor were there any rules stated. Does my solution use math, and does it work?
You sound angry, everything ok today? With the rules stated I could've used "potato" other than numbers.
Kevin W Shannon, post: 437424, member: 9985 wrote: That's funny, I didnt see lines 4-7 from your explanation in the problem, nor were there any rules stated. Does my solution use math, and does it work?
You sound angry, everything ok today?
Meant to be facetious, Kevin, not angry. I'm such an old curmudgeon, it's hard for folks who don't know me to tell the difference. I apologize if I offended you or anyone else.
Now I do get somewhat worked up when math education is the topic. I can't stand ambiguity in problems unless the point is to exhibit the ambiguity and discuss how it is resolved rather than grading a right or wrong answer. In this case, the point seemed to be an answer, not resolving ambiguity. That led to bad mathematics.
Ironically, I saw this problem on MSN.com yesterday before I read it here. In that presentation, 40 was given as the widely agreed-upon answer. Again, that will lead many readers of that web site down an erroneous path and, possibly, create a false mathematical impression for a student or two.
And that, more than the problem itself, really gets me worked up.
Kevin W Shannon, post: 437424, member: 9985 wrote: That's funny, I didnt see lines 4-7 from your explanation in the problem, nor were there any rules stated. Does my solution use math, and does it work?
You sound angry, everything ok today? With the rules stated I could've used "potato" other than numbers.
I think he missed the RFI on that, they changed all of the "+" to potatoes. All makes sense now. Clear as mud...
Hahaha... I was offended, now I'm not. Sorry for being so reactive/defensive.
This problem puts a point on one of my flaws. Sometimes I am forced to come up with a justifiable answer quickly which, unfortunately, may or may not be the correct one...but an answer is needed immediately.
It upsets me that I fell back on the (barely) justifiable one first without being under that pressure...
Thanks for the education, and the reminder to slow down!
MathTeacher, post: 437427, member: 7674 wrote:
Ironically, I saw this problem on MSN.com yesterday before I read it here. In that presentation, 40 was given as the widely agreed-upon answer. Again, that will lead many readers of that web site down an erroneous path and, possibly, create a false mathematical impression for a student or two.
And that, more than the problem itself, really gets me worked up.
I fail to see this as an "erroneous path". As said, we were given what we were given, so while you feel that there's a superior method and answer, it doesn't necessarily make it so.
gschrock, post: 437441, member: 556 wrote: Ever wonder how prevailing answers can be both right - and both wrong - at the same time?
Nope....I'm married
I have to say I agree 100% with everything MathTeacher has posted here. Both I and a young engineer/project manager here came up (independently - we discussed it later) with 96 because even though the problem isn't written correctly we both recognized that there was a sequence and that there were lines missing from that sequence, so we disregarded the numbers in the previous line because they were CLEARLY not in sequence.
This isn't a knock against people who came up with 40; everyone's minds work differently and we've all completed different levels of math.
I do have to agree that it's a trick question, probably written poorly on purpose to elicit exactly the response that it has. Mathematics is not an inexact science.
MathTeacher, post: 437427, member: 7674 wrote: And that, more than the problem itself, really gets me worked up.
You mean like this?
😎
If you allow for the missing equations, no where does the number 40 factor in.
Either way it becomes 96
FL/GA PLS., post: 437338, member: 379 wrote: Thanks for the correction, surprised no one else caught it. Especially the old farts here. 😉
Personally I never listened to Buffett.
Stephen Johnson, post: 437469, member: 53 wrote: Personally I never listened to Buffett.
technically, the first concert i ever attended was seeing the charlie daniels band on a flatbed trailer somewhere in north georgia at a tractor pull in mid 70s. however, it was incidental to both the purpose of the trip (dad's tractor pull tour family vacation) and to my consciousness as a toddler.
the first concert i ever attended where tickets were purchased for the express purpose was seeing buffett at the newly opened ocean arena in daytona, sometime in the early 80s. two things stood out to me from that show: i wasn't any more than about 10 years old, and appropriately naive, but when mom complained about the smell of marijuana in the air (which i was wholly unfamiliar with, even after her griping), my response was: "what do you expect mom? it's a concert!", and also that i found the overwhelming majority of jimmy buffett fans to be rather vanilla and milquetoast for my taste.
you can imagine how difficult that second part made life over the ensuing decade, growing up in florida, thick in the middle of boat culture. (boat culture is the subject of a diatribe of mine that has no place in a fine thread such as this.)
Stephen Johnson, post: 437468, member: 53 wrote: If you allow for the missing equations, no where does the number 40 factor in.
Either way it becomes 96
See Kevin Shannon's post. = 40
Like Tommy Young pointed out (with a slight typo), the correct answer is 19, and the author missed all the other ones he showed. These kinds of problems shouldn't use "+" and it's more like, what is the answer to "this" given the sequence. I agree use "potatoes" or some other symbology. I used the multiplier to get to 96. That skips having to get all the adds in between.
There's just so much wrong with the problem statement. Consider this:
If 1+4=5 and 2+5=12 then subtracting the first equation from the second gives 1+1=7. Doing the analogous operation with equations 2 and 3 gives 1+1=9, a conflicting answer.
As was obvious, these are not equations, but they are written as if they are. Believe it or not, many students have difficulty with the concept of equality. Here, performing the operation on the left side does not give the result on the right side (except for the first one) and the expressions cannot be added and subtracted algebraically. Tomorrow, when a real equation is covered, this will have to be untaught, a very difficult thing to do.
What's missing are variable expressions on the left side of the equal sign on each line.. While 2+5 is not generally equal to 12, if the first number of each expression is represented by n, n^2+4n will always produce the number on the right side. Alternatively, if n represents the second number in each line, then n^2-2n-3 will produce every number on the right side.
The results for n=8 and n=11 in their respective expressions for n are both 96.
So, writing expressions as equations when they're not and failing to clearly indicate that terms are missing are two real issues that whoever wrote this problem needs to address.
James Fleming, post: 437444, member: 136 wrote: Nope....I'm married
James Fleming, post: 437444, member: 136 wrote: Nope....I'm married
Stephen Johnson, post: 437469, member: 53 wrote: Personally I never listened to Buffett.
That's one of Buffett's "cool" (or should I say "warm"?) features... he broadcasts all of his concerts (even those in his current concert season) along with music from numerous other artists commercial-free over the Internet via Radio Margaritaville (free of charge) and via Sirius XM subscriptions. In the winter months when the sky is gray, the snow is deep and the wind chill/temperature is cold, Radio Margaritaville and the tropical escapism lifestyle personified by Buffett is one of the things that "helps me hang on." 😉
MathTeacher, post: 437497, member: 7674 wrote: There's just so much wrong with the problem statement. Consider this:
If 1+4=5 and 2+5=12 then subtracting the first equation from the second gives 1+1=7. Doing the analogous operation with equations 2 and 3 gives 1+1=9, a conflicting answer.
As was obvious, these are not equations, but they are written as if they are. Believe it or not, many students have difficulty with the concept of equality. Here, performing the operation on the left side does not give the result on the right side (except for the first one) and the expressions cannot be added and subtracted algebraically. Tomorrow, when a real equation is covered, this will have to be untaught, a very difficult thing to do.
What's missing are variable expressions on the left side of the equal sign on each line.. While 2+5 is not generally equal to 12, if the first number of each expression is represented by n, n^2+4n will always produce the number on the right side. Alternatively, if n represents the second number in each line, then n^2-2n-3 will produce every number on the right side.
The results for n=8 and n=11 in their respective expressions for n are both 96.
So, writing expressions as equations when they're not and failing to clearly indicate that terms are missing are two real issues that whoever wrote this problem needs to address.
Maybe the beginning question could be something like "find the missing variables that would make this series of equations true", (and find the answer for the last). That would promote that the expressions as they stand are false.
foggyidea, post: 437308, member: 155 wrote: x+y= x(y)+x
Now that was very, very good.
