?ÿComplete newb here. Zero experience in surveying. Construction company recently asked me to take over "surveyor" position at company, my only qualification was that I am "good with computers and stuff".
What I was told is that I would be doing mostly machine control, we have 4 graders, all with trimble equipment and I have all trimble equipment in my work truck including base station, rover and tablet data collector. I have figured out how to use TBC for machine control.
But the supers are asking me to do other stuff now, like staking curb and marking elevations and marking property boundaries for our building crews. I have no idea if how I'm doing things is even close to the right way. Which is why I'm here.
Howdy Chris, welcome to the site.
You are an employee doing what is ask of you by the company.
The company is required to operate within the guidelines of what is legal.
It is their responsibility to have a licensed surveyor on the payroll and at their company full time if needed.
Do not sign or stamp or initial any product that goes out to any clients and you should be fine.
While I usually enjoy threads like this, I will be candid. They want to pay you some 15-20 bucks an hr, for work worth 100 bucks an hr.
I can assure you, one run of curb and gutter, set at wrong elev, by 8", or a manhole with wromg inverts, will be expensive...
Check the laws of your state to see what you can and can't do.?ÿ In many states a construction company employee can do layout and machine control.?ÿ In others, not so.?ÿ
In no state should you indicate on any design or document you produce a designation of a property boundary or distance therefrom, unless that boundary has recently been checked by a licensed surveyor.
If you don't have training, Nate has a good point about the expensive mistakes the company is risking by relying on you.
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Chris,
Welcome aboard.
Being straightup one of your comments caught my eye. I know of no State where 'marking property boundaries' does not require a license. If the board gets wind you personally will be held accountable to some degree. Practice without a license could even be referred to a prosecutor in some jurisdictions.
Aside from that you really need to know what is kosher where you work. Some States allow a contractor to do thier own layout as long as they don't provide thst service to others. Others require an LS to set control first. Its a complete crap shoot without doing your homework.
Layout and machine control can provide a very good living, you just have to play by the rules...
Ttyl, Tom
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Ok thanks for the replies all.
I should have mentioned in OP that I am not acting in an "official" manner, I won't be signing or stamping any documents.
And as far as marking boundaries, I am not "defining" them only marking them IF I can find the pins set by an actual surveyor.
My main mission is to keep the machines going. At least that's what I was told by the guy who offered me this position. But for some reason all the Supers think me going out and putting flags where the boundary is supposed to be or where the curb is supposed to go is my job...
I made it very clear with one super already, that I am not a licensed surveyor and that I cannot and will not guarantee any bit of accuracy in that department. If they put a septic tank in the neighbors yard by going off my flags, not my problem, should've hired somebody with a license.....
The main reason I am here is with help on how to use the equipment, not to go out "marking boundaries" but to just be more accurate with machine control. We have some big multi-million dollar jobs and the bosses and customers all want to see these fancy machines doing an awesome job and being precise, which is why they spent all the money.
What ive been kind of struggling with is with elevations. Setting up a new site on my trimble tablet and getting the elevations right. Ive been using NGS website and trying to find these benchmarks but half the time I can't find them and the other half they are so old how do I know if they are still accurate? Using the "Here Position" when setting up the base gets me an elevation that is way off.
Also, an RPLS told me about OPUS and that I could set my base up, log data for a couple hours, and set my own benchmark... But apparently with Trimble, I would have to purchase and have them "unlock" data logging in my receiver so thats not much help, although if it came down to it and there was no other way, I'm sure I could get authorization to spend the money for it.
If you're in North Texas, I can help you mark boundaries and get your equipment set up correctly.?ÿ ??ÿ
Just a few notes.
Rtk accuracy, is usually +- a tenth horizontally, and +- 0.2' vertically.
So...
Rtk is not always the best tool.
N
If you're in North Texas, I can help you mark boundaries and get your equipment set up correctly.?ÿ ??ÿ
I bet you could! lol Too bad I'm not in North Tx?ÿ ??ÿ
Just a few notes.
Rtk accuracy, is usually +- a tenth horizontally, and +- 0.2' vertically.
So...
Rtk is not always the best tool.
N
.2' is as close as we need to get on most jobs we do with our motor graders.
Its more about what the customer see's anyway, if they see a nice new rig with the GPS guidance on it, it makes them happier and definitely sells a lot more jobs. What I'm trying to do is get as much out of it as I can, they spent a ton of money on this stuff, might as well get as much out of it as we can. And on some jobs where the plans have been over-engineered, getting as close to that elevation as possible. And im guessing the original PLS probably left his benchmark out of the plans on purpose....
In Tennessee, we are required to put at least one benchmark on a topographic survey.?ÿ I can't tell you how many times my topo surveys have been used for design and the benchmark hasn't been shown on the final design.?ÿ That wouldn't be an issue if they included my survey as one of the sheets in the design set but that does not always happen.
In Tennessee, we are required to put at least one benchmark on a topographic survey.?ÿ I can't tell you how many times my topo surveys have been used for design and the benchmark hasn't been shown on the final design.?ÿ That wouldn't be an issue if they included my survey as one of the sheets in the design set but that does not always happen.
I don't know what all the laws are as I am obviously not an RPLS, but I have only had ONE set of plans that listed a physical benchmark on the job. Some of the others list the datum they used, but some don't say anything, but still have specific elevations listed for finished floor and such... They want the floor at 2772.5' but from what? lol
Construction plans suck...
@chrish
Welcome! Post away, all your questions can be answered here, well most of them anyway.
With respect to your original post, tell your superiors you are not qualified to perform some of the duties requested, YET. But you will learn and then be able to accommodate the requests. Be right up front with them. Don't bite off more than you can chew and then choke.?ÿ ? ?ÿ
Welcome @chrish
First, let me say; I wish nothing but the best in all of your future endeavors.
I have met several people, that were placed into your position; they didn't last long...
Construction supervisors think that today's tools pretty much run themselves. Knowing how to turn it on is half the battle. Give someone with a strong back ground in computers, a half day with the vendor and they are well on their way to robotic bliss...It's not that easy; tell them you need some training. I believe that every company out there, related to what we do as surveyors and engineers, needs to spend 80 hours a year on training. A bigger company can absorb that kind of overhead with out hurting to bad. The little guy, not so much. But you've got to do it, that is the key.
Technology is advancing at a phenomenal rate; it's difficult to keep up. If you don't keep up, you fall behind. For some that's OK; I was at a BOT meeting and someone brought up the notion of going 100% electronic, because no one hand drafted any more. A gentleman from Eastern Washington raised his hand and said; I do...
I would suggest they hire someone who knows what they're doing; to come out and work with you for a couple weeks, so you can learn the ropes. That way you get a chance to screw things up and learn how to recover. You will make a mistake; if they are pushing you outside your comfort zone, there will be something you will miss, or assume something is right when it isn't and then what will you do?
Benjamin Franklin said: An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure. Pay for the education upfront, that way you won't need to pay to replace that curb or move that structure from someone else's property, because you made the wrong assumption.
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I hope you have a great day, I know I will!
Dougie
Welcome @chrish
First, let me say; I wish nothing but the best in all of your future endeavors.
I have met several people, that were placed into your position; they didn't last long...
Construction supervisors think that today's tools pretty much run themselves. Knowing how to turn it on is half the battle. Give someone with a strong back ground in computers, a half day with the vendor and they are well on their way to robotic bliss...It's not that easy; tell them you need some training. I believe that every company out there, related to what we do as surveyors and engineers, needs to spend 80 hours a year on training. A bigger company can absorb that kind of overhead with out hurting to bad. The little guy, not so much. But you've got to do it, that is the key.
Technology is advancing at a phenomenal rate; it's difficult to keep up. If you don't keep up, you fall behind. For some that's OK; I was at a BOT meeting and someone brought up the notion of going 100% electronic, because no one hand drafted any more. A gentleman from Eastern Washington raised his hand and said; I do...
I would suggest they hire someone who knows what they're doing; to come out and work with you for a couple weeks, so you can learn the ropes. That way you get a chance to screw things up and learn how to recover. You will make a mistake; if they are pushing you outside your comfort zone, there will be something you will miss, or assume something is right when it isn't and then what will you do?
Benjamin Franklin said: An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure. Pay for the education upfront, that way you won't need to pay to replace that curb or move that structure from someone else's property, because you made the wrong assumption.
?ÿ
I hope you have a great day, I know I will!
Dougie
Thanks for reply.
Yeah it was a little overwhelming at first.
I was told my main mission was machine control and looking at the plans and basically drafting a surface design that matches the plans, and turn the machines loose.
Sounds easy right? Lol
I just now found out that if I create a new site in scs900 using a geoid the elevations match up, but when I go and create a surface design in TBC with it and upload to the machine, it doesnt work. The machine doesnt like geoids. The machine demands a ??calibrated? design,?ÿit has to have that .cfg file that TBC creates with a calibrated design. With a geoid it doesnt export the cfg file.
So, im basically back to square one. I need to calibrate the site but how do I get my elevation numbers to match whats on the plans? Ive just been calibrating using N0,E0,100?? as my starting point in the calibrated coordinate system, and let the machine think we are at 100?? it doesnt know the difference. But then in TBC i have to adjust every point and line elevation down to what I calibrated my site to. Very time consuming.
What I need is a physical benchmark on the site that has a defined elevation so that i can calibrate my site to that benchmark. So that when they say finished floor elevation needs to be at 2772.5?? that I know Im at the same 2772.5?? as what the plans show. 2772.5?? can be measured from an infinite number of starting points lol
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.....What I need is a physical benchmark on the site that has a defined elevation so that i can calibrate my site to that benchmark. ...
Most of the time there has been pre-design topographic mapping which is often included which is often included in the plan set, sometimes called?ÿ an "Existing Conditions Map". That map will show the elevation of manhole rims or something equally solid. Use those as your benchmark.?ÿ?ÿ
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.....What I need is a physical benchmark on the site that has a defined elevation so that i can calibrate my site to that benchmark. ...
Most of the time there has been pre-design topographic mapping which is often included which is often included in the plan set, sometimes called?ÿ an "Existing Conditions Map". That map will show the elevation of manhole rims or something equally solid. Use those as your benchmark.?ÿ?ÿ
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When using manholes or similar to tie in vertically, be sure to check several.?ÿ
I once embarrassed myself while working on a subdivision.?ÿ We were setting property corners and locating the new manholes as we came to them.?ÿ We finished up late in the day so we decided to get the inverts on the next trip.?ÿ A week or so later we went back out and measured the inverts.?ÿ Compared to the design our numbers looked a bit screwy, but the contractor had only wanted the horizontal positions of the manholes staked so we assumed the errors were theirs.?ÿ At a site meeting to figure out how to several runs had ended up being nearly dead flat we discovered that they had adjusted nearly every manhole rim as they backfilled the curbs.?ÿ We had missed the change because on both our trips the manholes had been more or less flush with the adjacent ground.?ÿ NEW RULE:?ÿ Manholes get shot about 10 seconds after the invert is measured.
finished floor? that is normally a less than .05' type of surveying endeavor, not really a GPS kinda thing. Last disaster we got involved with was?ÿa finished floor .3' off, it was a mess caused by OPUS, GPS, and surveyors that didn't know what the h#ll they were doing.
There has to be a starting point of some kind, hopefully site control.
So that when they say finished floor elevation needs to be at 2772.5?? that I know Im at the same 2772.5?? as what the plans show. 2772.5?? can be measured from an infinite number of starting points lol
So you're in West Texas! If you call Western Data Systems, they could steer you in the right direction.
