I received a great suggestion about creating a new category called Survey Case Law.
What say you?
I was looking for a "business and legal issues" category the other day. I don't think it necessarily has to be strictly law cases, but could include all legal aspects of surveying.
I have noticed that my category selections are not being honored. I just double-checked that I have P&R turned off, but it seems to still be showing up occasionally. I could see Keith's posts about limbaugh earlier, but now they aren't showing. Weird.
yes
but maybe a subcategory therein titled Louisiana-Civil
😉
> I have noticed that my category selections are not being honored. I just double-checked that I have P&R turned off, but it seems to still be showing up occasionally. I could see Keith's posts about limbaugh earlier, but now they aren't showing. Weird.
That's because Keith had originally posted it in the wrong category. I moved it to the P&R category so that's why it is no longer showing up for ya.
I do not approve of the use of case law, except as subject matter in a law school when used by Attorneys, Judges or even Surveyors to base their opinions it is not law, but someones opinion and you can find Case Law to defend almost everything, which alone makes it unworthy of use to apply a just opinion. The law itself is seldom considered. We often hear that this country is a country of Laws. It is not, because we use Case Law as a substitute, taught by those who should know better. We all know that every case does not become Case Law because an appeal is required to get it to a higher Court. Usually that appeal is handicapped because evidence not presented in the lower Court can not be introduced, that could be caused by the lack of understanding by the Attorneys or the Judge. Case Law is an opinion usually based on opinions of others, and the users of it are unable to apply the written law because that they have not been taught, also not having the use of all of the facts is a huge injustice to those attempting by the courts to gain some justice. Looking at Case Law and then embracing someone else's opinion instead of studying the law and gathering all of the facts, then using the written law to base their opinion on will serve the public well. Case Law serves the Justice System very well. Case Law was never intended to replace the written law, The written law is intended to be unbiased and applied based on itself, not weakened by someone's opinion from another case. It is intended to be used as if for the first time and fresh in its application. Case Law has and continues to corrupt the Justice System and has reached the point that Legislation from the bench is becoming common.
I do not expect my opinion to be a popular one, but I believe it is correct. Go ahead with your new category Wendell, I do not intend this to be opposition to the idea.
jud
I would suggest to include Attorney General Opinions and State Board of Registration opinions/interpretations. Obviously, the applicable state would have to be noted. Do other states have a land surveyor forum similar to CLSA in California?
Jud:
Fact- there are 2 distinct bodies of law, Case Law and Statute Law. Case Law is the base root of all. Case Law modifies Statute Law; then Statute Law gets modified to reflect the Real World.
You don't have to like it, that is just the way it is.
🙂 Peter
I agree Dennis.
all boundary surveyors can benefit greatly by having an on line reference library.
Like it or not, Jud, case law is a fact of life. We, as Surveyors, have to live with it. Know thy enemy.
Perhaps the title should be "Common Law". It means the same thing. Case law or common law is based on "stare decisis", that means judges must follow their previous opinions or the previous opinion of higher court. Not all court cases have precedent value. One requirement is that the case is published.
U.S. common law (except for Louisiana) follows English common law. Statutes either make new law or modify common law. So maybe the title should be "Statute and Common Law".
That may be how it is but it was not intended to be that way by the founders. Just like everything else, the Justice System had checks and balances built in. The Legislative body was to write law, the Justice System was to enforce it as written, they do not, nor ever had the authority to rewrite law or to create it. Another check that was built in was that the jury was on equal footing with the prosecutor and the Judge. The Judge was a referee intended to make sure the law as written was used. The checks and balances for the people was with the jury which was charged with judging all evidence including the law used to prosecute. The dear old judge was not to instruct the jury on anything but what the law said. Bad legislation by the governing body could and was rejected by the jury and unpopular law could not be enforced. Because of the emigration of many nationality's, to this country the statement, jury of your peers, meant just that, not what it has been corrupted to today. A good but not perfect system was handed to us and we have allowed it to be corrupted by those feeding on it. What we have today is entrenched, but that does not mean it always will be, the folks just may have reached their limits and will be making the changes they are entitled to make. Just because we are now burdened with corruption and misuse of the power of government, does not mean change is imposable.
jud
As the "suggester" I recognise the Case Law if differing from State to State and Province to Province.
It would however serve well as a State/Province compendium of information of "Boundary Law" that no other Board seems to have particular interest in providing for our cadastral profession.
If it were to be set up with State or Province as first category headline, then the identifying area of boundary law matter, such as Adverse Possession, Water Boundary, Retracement etc. then with a quick word driven search guide of the State/Province and the area of boundary law ..... ...........
Shazzzzammmm !
Less head hurts for our colleagues is possible ?
Here's a link to a case that came to me today from Bob Aaron who writes on real property matters http://www.aaron.ca/:
http://www.canlii.org/en/ns/nssc/doc/2010/2010nssc211/2010nssc211.html
Cheers
Derek
PS -
Other Common Law jurisdictions' cases such as the "Empire" influenced, may also serve to cross pollinate solutions.
Look to the Oz case law that set out that surveyors have copyright !
Vide: http://www.copyright.org.au/news/news_items/cases-news/2007-cases/u27558/
Well, maybe we just need to go with Legal Issues.
If I were to add the states and provinces as a parent category for each, the dropdown at the top would be enormous. If the person posting a new topic in the new category were to preface his/her title with the state or province name, e.g. Oregon: Blow vs. Doe, that might make it easier to follow.
The court was wrong on that one, Blow got hosed.
Category added.
> The court was wrong on that one, Blow got hosed.
LOL!
Reference material is already available at a reasonable cost. Check for "A Practical Guide to Disputes Between Adjoining Landowners-Easements" by Backman & Thomas, published by Matthew Bender Div. of LexusNexus. It is an annually updated summary of case law that is reasonably organized and understandable.
The main thing to remember is that surveyors are not judges in court and we ARE NOT LIMITED TO THE FOUR CORNERS OF THE DOCUMENT!!
You also need to understand the difference between the classes of evidence and the rules of evidence.
Cooley cautioned lawyers and and surveyors in the 1880's in a treatise titled "Some Suggestions for the Study of the Law that is pertinent:
All history teaches us that different peoples, or even the same people in different stages of advancement, are not to be governed by the like modes and forms; and while we all concede this as a general rule, we are too apt, perhaps, when we compare with our own the system which prevails in the country from which we have mainly derived our ideas of government and law, to forget that we erected our structure on foundation ideas of democracy which never pervaded in the governing classes in Great Britian, and that the aristocratic sentiment, which is there controlling, is here, in a political point of view, insignificant.
Chief Justice Warren Burger of the US Supreme Court would give an annual 'Report on the State of the Judiciary' and you might pay particular attention to the one he gave in 1984 where he said that 'the American Legal System was no longer acceptable for a civilised society'.
Remember, English common law is really only a codification of the principles normally viewed as noblesse oblige, which is the ethical considerations that guide a king in the treatment of his subjects. Sometime between the 3rd & 5th grade I remember we were taught that there are no kings here in the US. Abe Lincoln told us that we were a citizenry governed of, by and for the people and I think someone would have told the lawyers that the rules of agency are a better basis for our legal system.
In the mid '70's, the federal gov't passed an alternate dispute resolution law, (and all states since then have passed thier own), that allows citizens to resolve civil disputes without the interference of lawyers or courts. Competent surveyors who know that the record does not control the location of property lines are the perfect mediators who can assist land owners to correct errors in our land records once we get past the garbage that a record description cannot be changed. (This, of course, rules out most of the fakes who are 'surveying' today.)
Richard Schaut
I am curious
about this statement; "In the mid '70's, the federal gov't passed an alternate dispute resolution law, (and all states since then have passed thier own), that allows citizens to resolve civil disputes without the interference of lawyers or courts."
Citation please.
Keith
I am curious
US Code, Title 9.
> I was looking for a "business and legal issues" category the other day. I don't think it necessarily has to be strictly law cases, but could include all legal aspects of surveying.
>
>
> I have noticed that my category selections are not being honored. I just double-checked that I have P&R turned off, but it seems to still be showing up occasionally. I could see Keith's posts about limbaugh earlier, but now they aren't showing. Weird.
Yeah, I have P&R turned off but it's been showing up for me too.
