I yield to your superior knowledge. Still, broadcast update rates are not the only criteria one might select a receiver by.
http://citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/viewdoc/download?doi=10.1.1.546.5207&rep=rep1&type=pdf
This paper indicates range changes due to the ionosphere on the order of a fraction of a meter per minute. That's the order of a cm per second. If you update 10 times per second, the ionosphere should have changed your path by millimeters at most. That doesn't indicate any benefit to going faster. The receiver can compute position updates as fast as it wants, but the correction info won't have changed significantly, so doesn't need to be transmitted faster than 5 or 10 times per second.
What's wrong with that analysis?
That's beyond my knowledge, Bill, but it makes sense.
There are also some practical limitations for higher transmit rate. Communications get tricky, even at 5Hz. Also, the processing time for a position update is pretty low (which is why those 100Hz rates are possible). But processing time for a new correction requires more time. The processing time for resolving ambiguities in a Javad receiver is somewhere around 300milliseconds. I don't know what the processing time is for a new position, with ambiguities already fixed, and a new correction. But my point is that there are several limitations that may make >5Hz transmit rate impractical.
matt8200, post: 343506, member: 6878 wrote: For receivers without such processes, initiations can be manually checked by the user by ÛÏdumpingÛ the receiver, turning it upside down causing the RTK engines to reset.
The latest version of Trimble's Access has a function for resetting the RTK init and for resetting SV tracking.
jim.cox, post: 343821, member: 93 wrote: The latest version of Trimble's Access has a function for resetting the RTK init and for resetting SV tracking.
This has been in Access for a couple years actually.
I had to take a break for a few days from this place. I get pretty passionate about GNSS technology - I really have reservations regarding the ethics of Javad. There is nothing ground breaking about the Triumph products. They don't offer any value from an innovation stand point. The $13K base price of the Triumph LS is attractive, but if you load it up with all the features, you're at $21K. Yes, it has a built in controller, I'll give it that, but you can't use it with a Total Station, which is a tool we will always need... contrary to popular belief and marketing.
I think we'd all get a kick out of a "Survey Equipment Company Timeline 1980 - Present". It would be a real eye opener.
Javad Ashjee is a brilliant engineer, no question - but the marketing and business ethics... flat out lies at times: "All RTK base stations (including RTNs) transmit data once per second." NOT TRUE. A counterpoint question to Beast Mode (FYI: registered trademark of Marshawn Lynch and the NFL) - how much initialization time are you saving? In this day and age, if you're not initialized within 10 seconds, you're doing something wrong or you don't have enough satellites.
To the point: nothing about the Triumph is truly unique or ground breaking. As an experienced and knowledgeable user, I feel insulted by these claims. 816 channels is nice (I love redundancy) but it's overkill. The price point is attractive, but it's still Fixed/Float RTK, circa 1994. The R10 users on here will agree: absolutely nothing beats HD GNSS.
FOR NATE:
I loved fishing my first two years in Alaska... then I realized I was in the middle of a war zone - Google "Kenai River Combat Fishing". I like Halibut fishing and get to do that a couple times a year (that's all you need... how much fish can one man eat?).
GLONASS was not viable for a long time. The quick GNSS product integration by Trimble and Leica points to the notion that they had developed GNSS capability years earlier and released it when it was ready. I had an early R8 Model 2 that worked almost flawlessly out of the box.
RTK Surveying Rule of Thumb:
As range increases, latency increases and reception decreases. Not sure if Beast Mode defies this rule and physics.
A guy from Ashtech taught me that... a long time ago, in a galaxy, far, far away.
Speed of light is pretty fast. Not sure how much latency you anticipate range causing.
Range induced signal degradation can cause latency due to lost packets of information. Is that what you are referring to? Rover epochs are ignored without concurrent base corrections in beast mode.
The base price is a pretty complete rover. The only thing I think I would add is photogrammetry at 1500. How much is an R10 rover these days?
There is so much confusion over transmit rates and position rates in the industry. You'll see that on Monday 11/09 I said that in the open most everyone fixes within 10 seconds, making the benefits of beast mode marginal. The marked improvement is when working under canopy where it may take several minutes to get a single fixed solution. 5hz transmit reduces the ttf by about 80%. This isn't the first time I've said that either.
Regarding your statement that the LS offers nothing new or unique ... you're kidding, right? I can see you have some deep seated bias against Javad. We all have our favorite sports team, favorite beer and favorite brand of truck. I get that. You've got loyalties to Trimble. They make good gear I don't really care for 'less filling, tastes great' brand debates. As a profession we are truly blessed to have so many capable systems from various manufacturers. I mean that sincerely. But for you to suggest that the LS offers nothing unique or ground breaking sounds pretty myopic and ignorant.
Well, I like fishing. And, I like fish. I have some inlaws, who live on Kodiak island. They brought me a nice box of smoked salmon. I have watched Dick Proeneke's videos. He's the guy that went to AK and built a cabin, and lived solo there for some 20-30 yrs. There is something inside me, that LIKES that way of life. I'm getting older, but there is a longing....
Anyway, I just got my nice shiney new Javad on Friday Night. This is Wednesday. The learning curve is abrupt, because I am very much a man of habit, and there is very little, to NO TDS in this thing.
BUT.... When you get this gear all clicking at 5 hz, and you are playing with it, and it is WOODS, going where "NO GPS HAS GONE BEFORE" and you are playing with it on the forest floor... and you set up a little mini survey, 20' by 100 feet, with stakes, that are all intervisable, and things are working... and you intentionally relax it's verify standard, and it does give you a bad answer... but it is going so fast, that it becomes quickly obvious... and such, and you realize that this is awesome.... and then some guy says it does not work.... and then you bring it's standard back up to "Verify" and it slows it down, but it does give you answers, within the tolerance it says it did. You then develop a sense of what has happened. And that is.... that this is pretty good... then you just like it.
The learning curve is abrupt, because I STARTED with TDS (for GPS) and then "learned Geodesy, through TDS". Which is another way to say, I got my feet splashed, but I did not know what it was!
Whereas, the Javad gear STARTS with Geodesy, and THEN makes a survey instrument. This then makes you aware that you don't know as much as you thought you knew..... Geodesy is something that we surveyors THINK we know... but our gear is isolating us from much of it.....
So, I'm learning alot, and I predict that IF the Javad people keep at it, (They have a real winner with the 6 engines, and 864 channels) and they smooth things out a bit with the rest of it, AND we surveyors learn some geodesy, that this is going to be like skiing fresh powder, VS heavily groomed snow. That is, where there's smoke, there is a fire. And, all fires start with alot of smoke. BUT when they get hot, the smoke diminishes.
It's worth your checking it out.
Think of me, when you catch a few. I don't fish enough.
Nate
There is nothing ground breaking about the Triumph LS.
816 channels is all that I see that makes it unique.
It's still fixed/float.
SurveyAK, post: 343916, member: 9968 wrote: There is nothing ground breaking about the Triumph LS.
So true! Why, multi-frequency GNSS receivers with integrated full-function controllers and cameras are a dime a dozen. ThereÛªs the Triumph-LS, andÛ?umÛ?help me out hereÛ?what are the others, again?
What is the current number of channels that could be occupied by all the signals (L1, L2, L5 and corresponding ones in other constellations) times the maximum number of satellites in all the constellations that could be visible at once? Seems like this number allows for some growth beyond what is usable now.
Leica GS Series w/ CS35
Trimble R Series w/ TSC3
Spectra w/ Ranger 3
Topcon HiPER/GR5 w/ Tesla/FC-2500
If you want to get technical, a Geo 7X has a range finder, which the Triumph does not.
SurveyAK, post: 343927, member: 9968 wrote: Leica GS Series w/ CS35
Trimble R Series w/ TSC3
Spectra w/ Ranger 3
Topcon HiPER/GR5 w/ Tesla/FC-2500
None of the above is a receiver with an integrated full-function controller -- you've got 2 boxes with each (as indicated by the "w/").
Does the Triumph controller run a robotic total station?
SurveyAK, post: 343932, member: 9968 wrote: Does the Triumph controller run a robotic total station?
Not yet!
I was going to stay out of this, bit I gotta know, AK...
Are you sour about something?
I'm getting a pattern here:
"Glonass does not work", (for some 10 yrs, +-, before Trimble could use Glonass) Official Trimble Report.
"There is nothing ground breaking about the Triumph LS." (Mr Survey AK)
Is the ground frozen where you are?
Cheers!
N
Jim Frame, post: 343937, member: 10 wrote: Not yet!
Neither does the Geo7x