We are using an R6, R8, HPB450, TSC2 Data Collector. At the start of the day we can reach 7 miles using GNSS data. In 2 hours we are down to 200-300'. We have two of everything and we have the same results. We have even hooked two deep cycle batteries to bolster power, only to extend it for a short time. I agree with another post that you need to buy Trimble in 3's, One in shop, one on the way to and from shop and one working. I have 2 and it doesn't work. A 3 hour job is taking all day and killing the profit line. Either need to find a solution or change systems. What is the best GPS GNSS system out there that is reliable. Trimble 4700's were great, everything since is questionable.
And further, at first I thought the issue could be related to space weather as it will come and go. Sometimes you can work all day and the next your done in 2 hours. It has been an issue for a couple months.
It sounds to me like your amp is heating up at the base. Is it consistent at the rover when you swap the base and rover?
We switched the R6 and R8 as base units. We have swapped out our HPB 450's as well. The results are the same. Sometimes you can go all day and no issues and the next time you get 2 hours of good work before it goes down. Not sure if that answers your question.
Sounds like the radio is turned up to max which will quickly drain the battery.
Have you tried buying a scooter/car battery and hooking it up to a radio repeater?
i use these all the time and are perfect for setting up on top of hills to shoot down the valleys.
Also this will allow you to turn down the range
For some reason I have NEVER gotten good, reliable, repeatable performance from a 450 radio!!!
Read the manual, bugged the dealer to death (they never know anything).
Hang on to your Trimmark 3 radios if you got them!
It does. At least you know it's not the internal radio on the rover. It shouldn't be a cable issue or it would be consistent throughout the day. I know that HPBs pull A LOT of juice running on a 4800 over-the-air data rate. It is weird that you are experiencing the same issue with multiple radios. If you have replaced your marine batteries(FWIW - I recommend the yellow or blue top Optima), I would still think it's the amp in the radios. I used to manage over 100 of them and have had several break down at the same time with that issue. It is not probable but it is possible. I would recommend getting one looked at and see if it's that.
It has been our experience that running the HPB450 radio on 35W at 4800 or 8000 baud will overheat the amplifier. We run at 16W and have had a lot less radio problems. I also try to use the internal transmit capability of the receivers whenever possible, and use the HPB as a repeater on an as-needed basis. Running at 16W only decreases the range by about 20%.
I agree that the HPB450 is not a reliable radio - we seem to have at least two in the shop at all times - but I would disagree that the problem extends to the Trimble receivers - we have 70+ R8II, R8III, and R10 receivers deployed in difficult conditions on a daily basis.
The HPB450, despite being painted yellow and having a Trimble sticker on it, is still a Pacific Crest product. They had a ton of problems with the PDLs the first couple years they were on the market, and the HPB hasn't fared much better.
I apologize it is a TDL450 Radio. I find out there is an internal sensor that is too sensitive which causes the radio to shut down in colder conditions when started. The dealer provided this to me. Need to get a new sensor. Those radios with a serial number beginning with a 12 have priority. This may explain why we can get 6-8 mile range when starting and after 2 hours we are down to 200-300'. When the radio is warm it works normal and as it cools off the sensor kicks out. Won't be an issue in warmer climates, but they can't ice fish. Also the antennae is to be a 5DB gain. The one sent is a 0DB gain. I doubt this will change anything as we have good range when the radio works. Will be sending in for repair. Hopefully this will remedy the issue. Hope this helps others as well.
Antenna Contacts
You might check the antenna contacts (the very very small tabs in the center of the antenna connector post) on your gps units. I have R6s and the rubber ducky antennas I was using were bottoming out on the contacts and tore most of them off. I also have a Pacific Crest ADL that had to be sent in for repair. It had many issues but now works great.
Antenna Contacts
Smaltheimer,
Yes, we have checked all of our antenna's. I also have had that issue in the past, however rarely. We sent the TDL radio's off yesterday as I am sure that is the problem. Sounds like they are a month out on the repair. What better time to fix the equipment than the dead of winter. Thanks for your reply.
This forum has helped me understand what's going on with my radios more. I've never used the internal radio before, but I have mostly R6's, and I think they added that function in later R8's. I also have an R10 though. Could I use the R10's internal radio as a transmitter for easier setup? I know then I'd be using an R6 as a rover and it wouldn't have all the satellites and R10 can access, but it's still have american and glonass. Or is there a radio that transmits for an R6? I never understood what the GSM radio version was for. Any idea what I can do with some R6's and R10s? I'd rather not use the externals radios for small jobs. Thanks!
You can definitely run the R6 as a rover off the R10 as the base using the internal radio. The R10 outputs 0.5W so it has decent range, especially if you rig up a 5db gain antenna to it. You can still get L2C and GLONASS, which is all that really matters as of now.
Going back to the original post... some time after I initially responded to this we changed from deep cycle marine batteries to Hoveround chair batteries, and 90% of our radio problems went away. Those batteries are made for the slow discharge / daily charge cycle that you get with the radios; car batteries and deep cycle batteries are not. The chair batteries are also smaller, lighter, and sealed - no more battery acid issues.
gpsit, post: 240894, member: 7829 wrote: We are using an R6, R8, HPB450, TSC2 Data Collector. At the start of the day we can reach 7 miles using GNSS data. In 2 hours we are down to 200-300'. We have two of everything and we have the same results. We have even hooked two deep cycle batteries to bolster power, only to extend it for a short time. I agree with another post that you need to buy Trimble in 3's, One in shop, one on the way to and from shop and one working. I have 2 and it doesn't work. A 3 hour job is taking all day and killing the profit line. Either need to find a solution or change systems. What is the best GPS GNSS system out there that is reliable. Trimble 4700's were great, everything since is questionable.
1 - get a brand new battery (this is the usual culprit)
2 - replace your cables, antenna, connections etc. (second usual culprit)
3 - don't run your 450 at more than 25W. The performance gain is negligible (can actually be 0 if you're not raising your antenna) - only serves to heat up. It works pretty much exactly like a car stereo amp, and you don't listen to a 100W amp at 100W much at all (if ever). Recommended use is 60% of max.
3 - raise your antenna (if you haven't been)
4 - use the 5dB gain antenna if you're in flat enough terrain
5 - clean the antenna contacts
that's my short troubleshooting list
When I worked in flat land we could get five miles from the internal radio in the R8 if we ran the external radio antenna up on a 25' level rod (and were pretty free from obstructions).
I agree with Plumb Bill. The battery is the most likely culprit. Once the range drops, try hooking your radio up to your truck battery for a while and see if your range problem disappears. Also, check that your Data Protocol is set to "TRIMMARK 3" and your radio link rate is set to 9600. (see the attached pdf) It never hurts to flash the firmware either. Hope this helps.
Just an FYI depending on the age of the receiver and the firmware version not all narrowbanded radios support 9600 baud
notmeforsure, post: 401290, member: 9696 wrote: This forum has helped me understand what's going on with my radios more. I've never used the internal radio before, but I have mostly R6's, and I think they added that function in later R8's. I also have an R10 though. Could I use the R10's internal radio as a transmitter for easier setup? I know then I'd be using an R6 as a rover and it wouldn't have all the satellites and R10 can access, but it's still have american and glonass. Or is there a radio that transmits for an R6? I never understood what the GSM radio version was for. Any idea what I can do with some R6's and R10s? I'd rather not use the externals radios for small jobs. Thanks!
The R10 works very well as a standalone, I've had it transmit to places I would never have expected.
I will say that using the external radios as repeaters takes more power and will degrade them faster than using them as a base radio. I'm down now to only one Trimmark 3.
The other two were used as repeaters and eventually it has made them unusable as repeaters and I don't trust them to last all day as a base radio, I expect the last one to make it till summer and that will probably end its lifespan if I keep using it as a repeater.
The receive/transmit function seems to wear them out quicker, and I don't see why that wouldn't affect other models. Using them when needed and as a base extends the life IMO. So we have taken to using the R10/R8 radios and putting up a repeater only when needed.
tatsurveyman, post: 240990, member: 7673 wrote: Hang on to your Trimmark 3 radios if you got them!
The Trimmark 3 is the most awesome radio ever built. And yes, hang on to these for dear life.
gpsit, post: 240894, member: 7829 wrote: We are using an R6, R8, HPB450, TSC2 Data Collector. At the start of the day we can reach 7 miles using GNSS data. In 2 hours we are down to 200-300'. We have two of everything and we have the same results. We have even hooked two deep cycle batteries to bolster power, only to extend it for a short time. I agree with another post that you need to buy Trimble in 3's, One in shop, one on the way to and from shop and one working. I have 2 and it doesn't work. A 3 hour job is taking all day and killing the profit line. Either need to find a solution or change systems. What is the best GPS GNSS system out there that is reliable. Trimble 4700's were great, everything since is questionable.
And after reading through this whole thread, the problem is definitely the radio and the battery you are using. My rules of thumb:
- always use 9600 baud rate
- never run at max power - 20W is all most folks need
- a good battery makes a difference - no deep cycle