I'll preface this with the assumption that pretty much everything on the market has the same rtk specs therefore of the "equipment quality (not how pretty it is, just its ability to do the job)"/price/support pyramid the decision is left to be made on price and support.?ÿ
We are also down in New Zealand so the selection is a bit narrower.?ÿ We are looking at a standard base/rover pair with data collector and uhf radio (limited to 2w here unless you have a private channel which is unusual to get).
At the top of the market we have Trimble/Leica which is the $60k+ range, Topcon/Sokkia not too far behind and then the 'better value' options.
We are a small firm in a reasonably competitive market so the premium for the top end gear cannot be justified and both the boss and I (both licensed surveyors) are pretty good with getting the best out of whatever gear we have.
Basically we have narrowed down to a pair of Geomax Zenith 35's and a Panasonic tablet with the 15 hour battery (would have to be with SurvPC as the x-pad software we demoed it with was rubbish, fine for a contractor but hides away all the juicy gnss details a surveyor wants to see and it didn't even have a traverse function in the COGO!!) or possibly a Javad Triumph LS + base.?ÿ The geomax's are sold locally and we would have some support locally and warranty in the same Country whereas the Javad would require import direct from the USA (or possibly the Aussie distributor) which raises warranty and support issues.?ÿ They both appear to work out to be around the $35k mark (in south pacific pesos anyway)
We run a Leica 1203 robot also and the SurvPC would integrate into that well also or if it dies a Geomax Zoom 90 would be the obvious replacement. Not paying for a TS15 as $50k+ when the Zoom90 at half that will do the job.
I've used Trimble Access and more recently Leica Smartworx (both on 1200 and Viva) and prefer the 'details' approach of Leica.?ÿ I've seen on here people are pretty fond of SurvCE but it looks more clunky that either of the other two and it's raw file seems to be projection coordinate not raw geodetic (also seems odd you have to check a box to get it to store the vectors)??ÿ There is another local guy using a Triumph LS (possibly the only one in the country) but he's spent a massive amount of (chargeable) time to get it all running and while he is happy with it he is not as evangelical as some of the chaps on here.?ÿ We could not expect to rely on him for support.
I've watched a good number of the canopy videos and the Triumph LS seems pretty unreal but given the test results here https://surveyorconnect.com/community/surveying-geomatics/whod-like-to-go-compare-a-r10-to-a-javad/paged/11/#post-457275 it seems the R10 isn't that far behind.?ÿ The R10 and Leica GS16/Geomax Zenith 35 are pretty much the same level it appears so perhaps we wouldn't be giving up that much and the lack of domestic support I think should be the deciding factor given how important it is when you have an issue (and they do always come up)?
The bulk of our work is urban/rural subdivision, boundary marking and small site topo's.?ÿ You get a number of marks under vegetation where it'd be much more convenient not to put a GNSS pair in and bust out the TS but I'd say half the sites we are on you can do 100% with GNSS (or can change the job to suit the gear i.e. for urban sites often we put in 1m o/s dumpy pegs rather than staking the actual boundary covered in fence/vegetation which still meets the client requirements).
If you've got this far your obviously a keen surveyor and any considered opinions would be much appreciated.
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I wouldn't recommend the Javad to a multi-crew firm unless there was a strong commitment to training everyone on its features and sticking with it.?ÿ In a mix-and-match equipment environment the "Javad way" would probably be too confusing for multiple crews to manage efficiently, but for a small shop with high-functioning field staff the Javad is not only viable, but the preferred alternative in my view due to capability and cost.?ÿ You'd have to deal with data conversion and export/import when switching to total station work, but I don't consider that to be a barrier.
On our forum in the UK i was introduced to the?ÿEmlid Reach RS+
Seems to be exceptional value but maybe won't give the GNSS details you're looking for.
Also not sure the radios would be legal in NZ or even powerful enough?ÿ
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On our forum in the UK i was introduced to the?ÿEmlid Reach RS+
Seems to be exceptional value but maybe won't give the GNSS details you're looking for.
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no we need a dual frequency system that will work as a package
I wouldn't recommend the Javad to a multi-crew firm unless there was a strong commitment to training everyone on its features and sticking with it.?ÿ In a mix-and-match equipment environment the "Javad way" would probably be too confusing for multiple crews to manage efficiently, but for a small shop with high-functioning field staff the Javad is not only viable, but the preferred alternative in my view due to capability and cost.?ÿ You'd have to deal with data conversion and export/import when switching to total station work, but I don't consider that to be a barrier.
The Zenith35's are the same cost as the Triumph LS setup down here and we get domestic support/warranty which we wouldn't with the Javad. It's this that is the main sticking point.?ÿ Pity as the US support seems an awesome system with real surveyors supporting it rather than sales people, not sure that'd be any use to us at the other end of the world.?ÿ Also not sure how much the DPOS system would be down here as we don't have a very dense CORS network (~100km+)
As you say data transfer isn't a deal breaker (usb csv points transfer pretty easy)
I think I've seen on here you run a geomax robot so obviously you prefer the Triumph LS over the Zenith35? Or was the Javad more economic for you in the States?
We have an LS-T2 combo and an LS-T1M combo and have been very happy with them.?ÿ I would say you will get better support with the Javad than anything else you will ever own.?ÿ Your shipping times might be a little longer but other than that I don't see how your situation would be any different than mine--I am 3000 miles from Javad headquarters.
Licensed Land Surveyor
Finger Lakes Region, Upstate New York
I would go local. Ask them for a decent demo in areas typical to your line of work. I would seriously value local service which you wouldn't get with the Javed by the sounds of it. Can Leica offer a decent used late version of their GPS? It's good gear from my limited several days use of such.?ÿ
I gather Javed is all on the pole. Would you be comfortable with pushing buttons for data collection on that set up (all day) as opposed to a separate recorder that interfaces with your robotics or a TS? How tall are you? Do you wear multifocals? I've taken to wearing my reading glasses for most work.
Gazing into a screen at or near head height would be a non event with my multifocals. Well an uncomfortable posture, not impossible. But good posture is vital. You discover that later than sooner.?ÿ
Gazing into a screen at or near head height would be a non event with my multifocals. Well an uncomfortable posture, not impossible. But good posture is vital. You discover that later than sooner.
This might be true if you position the receiver above your head, but there's seldom (if ever) any need to do that.?ÿ I normally run mine at an ARP height of 5.05 feet (because that's the height when the rod scale reads 5.00 feet on my Seco rod with Leica quick-release), which puts the center of the display at eye height for me.?ÿ The distance from my eyes to the screen is pretty much the same as when I'm running a robotic DC.
I don't like using a touch screen for intensive data entry -- I greatly prefer a dedicated keyboard, like the one on my Surveyor+ -- so that's an issue if you're like me.?ÿ But then I use RTK mostly for control purposes rather than topo, so I don't do a lot of typing on the Javad.
Jim the difference there for me would be I'm looking down to a recorder on a pole and through the close up part of multifocals. To look it 'in the eye' at eye level ie, I'd be cranking my head up to get the focus right. At 5' that would be about 6" lower than my eyes and at about 2' from body. Wouldn't you also be looking at a vertical screen, held steady? How does that handle bright sunlight? I've no idea, so obviously could just be waffling about nothing. Ultimately I'd have to try such before condemning it to the 'not for me' basket.?ÿ
Does that make sense??ÿ
On our forum in the UK i was introduced to the?ÿEmlid Reach RS+
Seems to be exceptional value but maybe won't give the GNSS details you're looking for.
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no we need a dual frequency system that will work as a package
Yeah, they're dual frequency. All constellations. Network RTK, Base/Rover RTK, Radio, GSM, Static all possible. Not sure about PPK. Amazing what you can get for the money now. Some competition is great.
Jim the difference there for me would be I'm looking down to a recorder on a pole and through the close up part of multifocals. To look it 'in the eye' at eye level ie, I'd be cranking my head up to get the focus right. At 5' that would be about 6" lower than my eyes and at about 2' from body. Wouldn't you also be looking at a vertical screen, held steady? How does that handle bright sunlight? I've no idea, so obviously could just be waffling about nothing. Ultimately I'd have to try such before condemning it to the 'not for me' basket.?ÿ
Does that make sense??ÿ
Pity the screen can't detach. You would need it a little bit lower so you could see it through the lower part of your bifocals.
Having the screen vertical must make it easier to shade and see in strong sunlight?
I think I've seen on here you run a geomax robot so obviously you prefer the Triumph LS over the Zenith35? Or was the Javad more economic for you in the States?
When I bought my Javad system it was without question less expensive than anything even remotely comparable.?ÿ Pricing has risen considerably since then, so I no longer know how the Javad compares with e.g. GeoMax for cost.
As far as support goes, I've never met face-to-face with any of the sales or support staff.?ÿ Support has all been by website, phone and/or remote control of my unit by support staff, usually while I'm in the field so that they're assisting with the problem (which is often me!) in real time.?ÿ That might be an issue if your time zone if substantially offset from continental U.S. time, but otherwise it's renders geographic differences irrelevant.?ÿ But again, this approach wouldn't work very well if the user is a total novice or a slow learner.?ÿ (Okay, some slow learners can make it work -- I still struggle with the localization process; I don't use it often enough for my aging brain to have clicked with it yet.)
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Does that make sense?
It does.?ÿ I'm in a similar situation, as I'm nearsighted but wear distance-only polarized sunglasses in the field.?ÿ I have to look under or over my lenses to comfortably see the screen, regardless of whether it's my Javad or my Surveyor+ data collector.?ÿ It's a nuisance, but a manageable one.
igage.com
Your $60k (NZ) price for a pair of Trimbles seems pretty high. I got a pair of R8S's last year for about half that.?ÿ I understand about local tariffs and all that, but are you sure about that figure??ÿ
Your $60k (NZ) price for a pair of Trimbles seems pretty high. I got a pair of R8S's last year for about half that.?ÿ I understand about local tariffs and all that, but are you sure about that figure??ÿ
that would be for two receivers, controller, batteries and I was thinking R10's as they are more comparable unless the R8s have the same processing engine??ÿ Yep they have a pretty tight grip on market down here
On our forum in the UK i was introduced to the?ÿEmlid Reach RS+
Seems to be exceptional value but maybe won't give the GNSS details you're looking for.
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no we need a dual frequency system that will work as a package
Yeah, they're dual frequency. All constellations. Network RTK, Base/Rover RTK, Radio, GSM, Static all possible. Not sure about PPK. Amazing what you can get for the money now. Some competition is great.
The specs on here?ÿ https://emlid.com/reachrs/ state they are not dual frequency still (GPS/QZSS L1, GLONASS G1,
BeiDou B1, Galileo E1, SBAS) which would kill their multipath/canopy abilities I'd have thought.
On our forum in the UK i was introduced to the?ÿEmlid Reach RS+
Seems to be exceptional value but maybe won't give the GNSS details you're looking for.
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no we need a dual frequency system that will work as a package
Yeah, they're dual frequency. All constellations. Network RTK, Base/Rover RTK, Radio, GSM, Static all possible. Not sure about PPK. Amazing what you can get for the money now. Some competition is great.
The specs on here?ÿ https://emlid.com/reachrs/ state they are not dual frequency still (GPS/QZSS L1, GLONASS G1,
BeiDou B1, Galileo E1, SBAS) which would kill their multipath/canopy abilities I'd have thought.
sorry i stand corrected
I upgraded recently from a 5700/5800 Trimble system to a R10 system for $26000. Base setup time is 1/4 of the time. I rarely use the 6 watt radio. The 2 watt radios reach 2 miles in undulating terrain. Though the R10 setup with a TSC3 data collector is pretty easy to handle, I would recommend a fairly local distributor since issues do arise. Getting a fixed position in dense fir over growth is amazing. I'm not familiar with Javad or Lieca so can't give you an accessment on those systems. If you can afford a Cadillac why not buy one?
I upgraded recently from a 5700/5800 Trimble system to a R10 system for $26000. Base setup time is 1/4 of the time. I rarely use the 6 watt radio. The 2 watt radios reach 2 miles in undulating terrain. Though the R10 setup with a TSC3 data collector is pretty easy to handle, I would recommend a fairly local distributor since issues do arise. Getting a fixed position in dense fir over growth is amazing. I'm not familiar with Javad or Lieca so can't give you an accessment on those systems. If you can afford a Cadillac why not buy one?