Lee,
The CORS are/were on the premises of each NYDOT county maintenance? office. I did not say it was the County responsibility. I guess I should have been more specific and said county NYDOT office.
You say 1-2 hours static OPUS-RS observations for elevation. What then are you comparing those results to?
If I truly need a solid elevation, I would start with an OPUS-S observation and then split it into 2 or more OPUS-RS submissions. Then compare the 3 or more values.
Using a long OPUS-Static and breaking it into multiple OPUS-RapidStatic is a redundant observation, because OPUS-RS uses the C1 and C2/P2 values as well as the L1 & L2. You also have the options of solving to different CORS.
Paul in PA
Shelby H. Griggs PLS, post: 416997, member: 335 wrote: In your part of the world, 12, 12A and 12B are identical. If Captivate works like all the other Leica field software, you create a "field" geoid model from the NGS geoid models and upload it. I finally did that with 12B although 12A was the same where I work, it just gets less arguments from those saying you aren't using the current model. The field version just cuts it down to size, that is how the older SmartWorx is I have.
SHG
I had thought they were the same here, then read up again to confirm.
Paul in PA, post: 417007, member: 236 wrote: Lee,
The CORS are/were on the premises of each NYDOT county maintenance? office. I did not say it was the County responsibility. I guess I should have been more specific and said county NYDOT office.
You say 1-2 hours static OPUS-RS observations for elevation. What then are you comparing those results to?
If I truly need a solid elevation, I would start with an OPUS-S observation and then split it into 2 or more OPUS-RS submissions. Then compare the 3 or more values.
Using a long OPUS-Static and breaking it into multiple OPUS-RapidStatic is a redundant observation, because OPUS-RS uses the C1 and C2/P2 values as well as the L1 & L2. You also have the options of solving to different CORS.
Paul in PA
Paul,
"county NYDOT office".
I believe you are correct, they are located at County Highway Maintenance buildings.
NYSDOT has 10 regions that cover groups of the over 60 counties.
You keep stating NYDOT, that could be NYCDOT or NYSDOT?? City or State
When I'm out of state talking to clients, I'm very clear in telling people I'm from upstate or central New York, not from New York City.
Dig some digging on Survey Controller and figured out how to connect to the DOT GG_MAX_RTCMv3, changed Captivate settings to match. I ran the GS16 on DOT, the R8 on DOT and R8 KeyNet VRS back to back for 325 Epochs on a tripod. On DOT the R8 & GS16 were now .002'H & .004'V different, amazingly good . The KeyNet and DOT sessions were .009'H & .301'V. The #'s between KeyNet & NYSNet are too big on the verticle to ignore.
Yes, that is the correct mount to get best network corrections on NYSNET. With you being just 5 miles from the base, then verticals are good. I'm located 22 miles from nearsest NYSNET base, not so good.
Still not sure why Trimble KEYNET gives such bad vertical. Probably on a different datum. You mentioned you've used it now for 3+ years, and just no checking the vertical on KEYNET? Seems you would have seen this large of a discrepancy at some point in past 3+ years. What type of work do you do with network GNSS, Topographic mapping or Construction Layout?
leegreen, post: 417019, member: 2332 wrote: Yes, that is the correct mount to get best network corrections on NYSNET. With you being just 5 miles from the base, then verticals are good. I'm located 22 miles from nearsest NYSNET base, not so good.
Still not sure why Trimble KEYNET gives such bad vertical. Probably on a different datum. You mentioned you've used it now for 3+ years, and just no checking the vertical on KEYNET? Seems you would have seen this large of a discrepancy at some point in past 3+ years. What type of work do you do with network GNSS, Topographic mapping or Construction Layout?
Everything is set to same Datum & Coordinate System. I brought both systems to NGS LX1308 today, unfortunately before I figured out the MAX vs NearSite on SurveyController. With NearSite it hit +/- 0.06'V, KeyNet was +/- 0.12'V. Had wife and kids with me so they were quick sessions, she doesn't think surveying on Sunday is so much fun. Seems NYSNet is closer to published ortho though.
We purchased the R8 for use with our hydrographic kit and it's used mainly on the boat. It's also used to set pairs for topo jobs that need to be on state plane, never on construction sites. The issue popped up when a pair was set on a job with the R8 (KeyNet) and I took the GS16 out a few weeks later to to some topo. I checked into the R8 control, saw the vertical issue. I then set the R8 up with the NYSNet to try and track down the issue.
You may have them set to the same datum but it would be helpful to know what datum the corrections are broadcast for
mvanhank222, post: 417021, member: 8673 wrote: You may have them set to the same datum but it would be helpful to know what datum the corrections are broadcast for
Good point. Think we may have been blissfully ignorant that the R8 KeyNet was setup right from the dealer and all was well. Having only one GPS it never popped up before.
mvanhank222, post: 417021, member: 8673 wrote: You may have them set to the same datum but it would be helpful to know what datum the corrections are broadcast for
That's what I meant by different datum. Since KEYNET website doesn't clearly state their datum, it is probably a datum issue at their base. Can you download a few hours of static from your KEYNET account? Send this to OPUS-RS, then compare it to the base coordinates in your raw RTK file.
leegreen, post: 417026, member: 2332 wrote: That's what I meant by different datum. Since KEYNET website doesn't clearly state their datum, it is probably a datum issue at their base. Can you download a few hours of static from your KEYNET account? Send this to OPUS-RS, then compare it to the base coordinates in your raw RTK file.
Of that I am unsure. I will be calling them tomorrow to nail down an answer. Our Leica rep is pretty knowledgeable about the NYS DOT system, works with them on their CORS and know Captivate as good as anyone outside tech support. I reviewed all of this with him and he feels confident that it is a KeyNet/NYSNet not Leica/Trimble issue as well.
I figured that is what you meant but I think he may have thought you just meant in the data collector
leegreen, post: 417026, member: 2332 wrote: That's what I meant by different datum. Since KEYNET website doesn't clearly state their datum, it is probably a datum issue at their base. Can you download a few hours of static from your KEYNET account? Send this to OPUS-RS, then compare it to the base coordinates in your raw RTK file.
I figured that is what you meant but I think he may have thought you just meant in the data collector
mvanhank222, post: 417037, member: 8673 wrote: I figured that is what you meant but I think he may have thought you just meant in the data collector
I did assume that @ 1st, yes.
I really don't know much about KeyNet. I had always run base/rover or DOT NYSNet @ previous employers and always Leica. I did set up both the units as a NULL phase center on base units with respect to the NYSNet connections. I am now thinking thanks to the posters here that the culprit may be that the KeyNet profile has the wrong antenna phase for my area. NYSNet is all Leica, the KeyNet was initially setup by the dealer while we were doing a long term project in southern NJ, the private stations there may be Trimble.
mvanhank222, post: 417037, member: 8673 wrote: I figured that is what you meant but I think he may have thought you just meant in the data collector
I did wrongly assume that, yes.
mvanhank222, post: 417037, member: 8673 wrote: I figured that is what you meant but I think he may have thought you just meant in the data collector
You are correct, I did assumer that @ 1st.
It's occurring to me, thanks to the replied here that since the KeyNet was setup by the dealer during a long term project in Southern NJ that the phase center could be out of whack. NYSNet is all Leica with a 'NULL' phase center @ the base while the KeyNet in NJ is all Trimble base stations. Regardless, KeyNet will be getting a call to for some info. Once I can figure out what exactly is happening we may just cancel it anyways, pick it up as needed when out of state.
Spoke with KeyNet today, gave them all of information. They are going to check into it with Trimble. Said they'd had "issues" in the past with NYSDOT CORS data when mixed into KeyNet. No elaboration on what those issues were.
My Leica rep did tell me that they've seen similar problems on the Vermont VRS, upwards of 0.20' of vertical discrepancy.
Luke J. Crawford, post: 417219, member: 11382 wrote: My Leica rep did tell me that they've seen similar problems on the Vermont VRS, upwards of 0.20' of vertical discrepancy.
Maybe that's why NYSNET no longer supports any CORS in Vermont, since Nov. 6, 2015.
Here is a PDF showing current NYSNET base stations.
Luke J. Crawford, post: 417219, member: 11382 wrote: My Leica rep did tell me that they've seen similar problems on the Vermont VRS, upwards of 0.20' of vertical discrepancy.
Maybe that's why NYSNET no longer supports any CORS in Vermont, since Nov. 6, 2015.
Here is a PDF showing current NYSNET base stations.
I am in western New York, and used the NYSRTN for a time when we first acquired our R8's.
I agree with Lee Green, I get about 0.15' difference from the NAVD88 elevations in our area.
I ran a test on several first order monuments and found that the resultant elevations were more in harmony with the Dynamic Height as published on the monument data sheets rather than the orthometric elevations. If you compute the gravimetric difference between the two (dynamic height and ortho elev) it averaged 0.144'. I think the resultant elevation numbers from NYSRTN are Dynamic Heights and not Orthometric Elevations.
I have since stopped using the RTN and run my own static for site control.
klsnbms, post: 417266, member: 146 wrote: I am in western New York, and used the NYSRTN for a time when we first acquired our R8's.
I agree with Lee Green, I get about 0.15' difference from the NAVD88 elevations in our area.
I ran a test on several first order monuments and found that the resultant elevations were more in harmony with the Dynamic Height as published on the monument data sheets rather than the orthometric elevations. If you compute the gravimetric difference between the two (dynamic height and ortho elev) it averaged 0.144'. I think the resultant elevation numbers from NYSRTN are Dynamic Heights and not Orthometric Elevations.I have since stopped using the RTN and run my own static for site control.
Would that mean that KeyNet is giving orthometric & NYSNet dynamic?
Although, when I hit the NGS BM, NYSNet was closer than KeyNet.
