Do you have other experience that you could use to meet the board's requirement?
hijack, and apropos of nothing- a few years back i applied to florida and was rejected based on sub-minimum reference time.?ÿ it wasn't by much, but only because i'd gone off and been self-employed prior to hitting the 5 years or whatever the reciprocity terms were.?ÿ i'd started to jump through the hoops to figure out how to prove i'd had sufficient responsible charge time, but then i got busy and forgot about it.?ÿ haven't had the time to consider dedicating months of my life to the endeavor since, i've been so damn busy for so long.?ÿ at this point i don't know if i'll ever get another license, but i'll be just fine if'n i don't.
This after you were already licensed somewhere else, I assume??ÿ That's a major pet-peeve of mine.?ÿ
Shouldn't the fact that you're licensed in another state be prima facie evidence that you have enough experience to be licensed in another state?
I'm not talking about all the other state specific requirements, just that this should satisfy the experience part of their requirements.
correct- i'd been licensed for approx. 10 years at the time, problem being i'd been out on my own for just over 5 or 6 (can't rememember which).?ÿ basically they said i needed 60 months of verified time and i had, like, 56 or so before i'd quit and become head honcho.?ÿ i do remember asking if i could write myself a rec and got an extremely dry response...
@flyin-solo We're looking at 40+ years ago, but when I applied for the LSIT I was rejected because all my experience was with one company.?ÿ That company was owned by a cousin and relatives couldn't give references.?ÿ I got around it by getting my Bachelor Degree and additional experience when I was in school.?ÿ I've talked to BOR members since then who thought that was a bit crazy, but that was the way the members interpreted it at the time.
Andy
And thats the reason some of these boards need to be cleaned out. Arbitrary and capricious actions and decisions with no real foundation.?ÿ
I asked a simple non-confrontational ( to any reasonable person) question about the meaning of or definition of what a "board approved" program is and was told that board members will not and can not answer questions regarding the requirements of licensure...... WHAT WHAT???????ÿ THEN WHO IS MAKING THESE DECISIONS!?!?!?!?!??ÿ FLYING MONKEYS????
They wield such ridiculous power similar to the anti Xmas wreath HOA board members.?ÿ No one should have to prostrate and be belittled by the board, esp when the industry is wholly understaffed and needs to encourage and foster and mentor as many people that they can find.
No one needs to lower the bar, but they can't keep raising it higher than before when they were licensed, or else the profession will become extinct.
amen. I feel like that's the case here in NC too and in some part I feel it's largely due to NCEES being able to drive the bus on the FS & PS exams now before you even get around to the state exam. Most field guys who wish to become licensed are not excellent test takers & very few will ever be afforded the proper amount of time by their employers to send them to a crash course for test prep or to take the 3 different exams multiple times potentially (the pass rate on the FS isn't that great if you check NCEES' website). couple that with the average lower pay that either a crew chief/draftsman/technician earns and the fact that most are already well into their career with families or bills & don't have extra money to spend on plenty of books (all of my used 30+ books & manuals have easily set me back roughly $3k over the last 5 years). many employers will say they're happy to either pay for courses or reimburse you for books & exam fees but I've never met a single person who's gotten licensed that said "man my employer bent over backwards financially to help cover all these costs." Granted some firms might have small libraries where you can borrow a book but I know I ended up purchasing 7 packs of plastic sticky tabs & 2 packs of highlighters going through all of my personal books for the FS, PS & NC's state specific exam. Truth be told, I probably studied just as hard, if not harder, for my recent PLS exams as I did the FE & the PE back several years ago. And the contractor's exams were an absolute breeze compared to either of those just mentioned haha
?ÿ
In regards to the "profession will become extinct" comment I have to agree. I'm in the local society of surveyors chapter & have been to the state chapter once for a course on the FS exam as well as a few courses offered here at the local chapter level offered for continuing education. they're always super interesting topics & hearing old-timers tell about their experiences is something that money just can't buy. but less than 25% of the people in the room for that particular FS prep course were under 40yrs old when the presenter asked us to speak about it and at the local chapter meetings most guys are 60+ with the average age of a surveyor in NC being almost in the mid 60's. I respect the profession immensely (wonder if I missed my calling some days as engineering just isn't nearly as fun as surveying) but I also see this problem of aging out that the profession is facing as almost certain job security for anybody who is a licensed surveyor - no matter what the economy might be doing. My biggest fear with this problem however is if the boards start realizing the problem & decide on letting the GIS folks somehow get licensed through a quick & easy reciprocity stipulation they might adopt as most don't truly appreciate the field work & investigation behind surveying. back in the day PE's used to just apply & receive licensure as a PLS here in NC but you can see the potential danger in that after looking at plats or maps done by several of those individuals?ÿ
For my first PE license I used two long experienced engineering supervisors who were not licensed. Once way in the past I used a reference that I had not worked for. It was a municipal engineer who reviewed and approved projects I worked on under my employers name and seal. He was aknowledging the work that I did as a part of major projects. Later on I did two years of work for him gaining valuable municipal experience. Having invested time in CAD training I left that firm when they decided not to commit to CAD. I went to a local firm where my first project was 85% me in CAD. After a few years I moved on but over the following 15 did multiple follow ups on my projects and a few new concept plans. When I elected to go for my PLS I went back to an early firm and spent 2 days going through the daily time log book verify the hours on various types of activity. MY surveying experience was scattered throughout 30 years of engineering experience. I also verified experience for a co-worker when he applied for the PLS.
Paul in PA, PE, PLS
I think if the GIS people( I am one for sure) should have to take the same tests, and show the same experience if they want to be Licensed. They got out occasionally to collect GPS.?ÿ Some are talented drafters and great researchers. But non of them I have ever worked with or around( save the few that were also Surveyors) had the broad back ground a surveyor does indeed have.
GISP is a certification, ( i will sit for that soon too) and being such is not a professional opinion, although they seem to want to be graced by the same legally responsible boundaries( see what i did there?)?ÿ without the level of experience a surveyor has.?ÿ My CST certs are valuable to my employer, and not licenses, and provide a benchmark that the NSPS set out to associate non-licensed people.
I learned tons from the old field guys that would train anyone willing to learn, and at 43, I was literally in overdrive learning about things I might never get to do, from guys that forgot more about surveying than I may ever even know( very likely actually).
?ÿ
I too have huge respect and curiosity for the field and career.?ÿ I just wish I had started 25 years earlier, although, maybe that would have burned me up like C. Thomas Howell in?ÿ Red Dawn....?ÿ WOLVERINES!!!!!!?ÿ?ÿ
I'm not sure, but I think that refusal to acknowledge your work experience could be grounds for a complaint to your state board. Probably the best course of action is, as Ric Moore had done, to have your current supervising PLS give the recalcitrant former employer a call and have a little peer to peer chat. If that doesn't work, you go to the board with hat in hand and see what they think. In that case, it might be good to go with some letters from former co-workers (or possibly old clients) that will vouch for your story.?ÿ
I had the same issue with a previous employer who refused to sign for my work experience.?ÿ I know he was bitter at the fact that I left for a competitor, but at the time, we were in a recession and my hours had been cut drastically.?ÿ I spent 10 years with the company, started as an intern and moved my way up to a project manager, I got my LSIT while working with him and still he would not sign for me.?ÿ I was fortunate enough to have enough peers that are licensed that could supplement my application but still, I don't quite understand why a grudge like this would warrant the need to stop me from becoming a licensed professional.
I was asked 2x by persons that I had no knowledge of their work, to provide references.
I offered to let em work with me for a week, so I could do it. They declined.
🙁
N
