Not all experience is equal. And just like experience, not all education is equal
A recent thread focused on education from ICS/Intext, in Scranton, Pennsylvania. Can anyone find the Surveying curriculum for this school AKA International Coorespondence School?
I did find this Popular Mechanics link to get your diploma from ICS
At one time when most of the country was rural, ICS was very big in long-distance education. Years ago I met Archie DeGroot, who ran their survey curriculum. I forget the exact number of years, but he worked for them for something like 70 years. Very sharp and impressive man. Nice as could be.
Can you imagine having the same job for 70 years. Course I should talk - I've been surveying over 50 years.
It Is Penn Foster Now
Associates in Construction Technology online.
I have almost the full set of welding books my father used from ICS.
Paul in PA
It Is Penn Foster Now
I have sets from ICS of 3 different eras. In the early 1900's they had full size hardbound books. Then later on they went to the small, black, hardbound books. And then next was the blue paperback books - and some of the paperbacks were green.
Many of these books have really good material - some of which is still worth reviewing.
It Is Penn Foster Now
Agreed. In 99 when I was studying for the SIT, my dad had many volumes of ICS books from the 70's that I used in part for my review materials. I do not have a degree in surveying. I have two in business and one in psychology. The ICS books, while I wasn't in the curriculum, were easily understood and dovetailed quite well with Skelton, Brown, et cetera.
Richard seems to be looking at the ICS courses from decades past with the eyes of the current, when in reality, he should view them in context with the time and where things were when they were produced. In the 70's, in Texas, when the ICS books were gotten by my dad, there was ONE surveying degree (maybe) at the University of Houston. No degree was required for licensure unlike today.
Context is everything and as with everything, they lead you to the water, but only the thirsty drink.
Kris
> In the 70's, in Texas, when the ICS books were gotten by my dad, there was ONE surveying degree (maybe) at the University of Houston.
Too bad I didn't have a crystal ball when I was a freshman majoring in architecture at UH (aka Cougar High)
James
I'm not sure that a crystal ball would have helped since architects use those weird numbers for measuring anyway. I think it probably would have taken a paradigm shift to create the sense needed to use base 10 math. 🙂
James
Interest didn't equal aptitude; I dropped freshman design studio halfway through the first semester. 😉
James
:good:
Cougar High
Been a long time since I heard it called Cougar High
ICS Graduate
Completed the ICS Program back in '91.
FWIW, our BOR recognized the value of the education but wouldn't accept it until I completed another exam under the watchful eye of a BOR proctor. In the hours it took me to ace their version of the "final" ICS exam, that nice old fellow had a bunch of stories to tell.
Those blue paperbacks still rest on a bookshelf in my office and have always been recommended reading for our more motivated employees.
I finished the ICS Surveying and Mapping Course back in 1996. I have my diploma on the wall. My books were the paperback copies, and they are on my bookshelf.
I have 10 of the smaller hardcover textbooks that I have found on ebay over the past few years. I have another small book about field notes that was published by the International Textbook Company as well.
I never really talked much about the course until I saw the textbooks at the Tennessee Conference back in 2001 or 2002, when Dave Ingram had some of them on display. I asked a fellow surveyor about it, and he told me that at one time that was the only formal education for surveyors.
I believe that the material I learned in that course gave me a leg up when I took my exam in 2000. I think it was a quality course, and it was the real deal when I took it. It was not a fly by night program. You had to study, and study hard at some parts of it. I was lucky I was working with three licensed surveyors at the time, and it was pretty helpful.
Jimmy
> At one time when most of the country was rural, ICS was very big in long-distance education. Years ago I met Archie DeGroot, who ran their survey curriculum. I forget the exact number of years, but he worked for them for something like 70 years. Very sharp and impressive man. Nice as could be.
>
> Can you imagine having the same job for 70 years. Course I should talk - I've been surveying over 50 years.
I will hit the 50 year mark since I started in about 3 years. I still won't be "retirement" age when that happens. Not that I plan to retire. If I were to hit on of the big lotteries tomorrow I would still be surveying when I drop.
B-)
It Is Penn Foster Now
> Agreed. In 99 when I was studying for the SIT, my dad had many volumes of ICS books from the 70's that I used in part for my review materials. I do not have a degree in surveying. I have two in business and one in psychology. The ICS books, while I wasn't in the curriculum, were easily understood and dovetailed quite well with Skelton, Brown, et cetera.
>
> Richard seems to be looking at the ICS courses from decades past with the eyes of the current, when in reality, he should view them in context with the time and where things were when they were produced. In the 70's, in Texas, when the ICS books were gotten by my dad, there was ONE surveying degree (maybe) at the University of Houston. No degree was required for licensure unlike today.
>
> Context is everything and as with everything, they lead you to the water, but only the thirsty drink.
Kris,
Your dad was already registered BEFORE UH started their degree program. That started in the mid 80's.
B-)
All education is equal, but some education is more equal than others.
With the long slow death of brick and mortar universities begun, and the offering of complete graduate degrees through distance education even by ivy league universities, we all may have to re-assess what we consider to be a suitable pedigree.
> Not all experience is equal. And just like experience, not all education is equal
>
> A recent thread focused on education from ICS/Intext, in Scranton, Pennsylvania. Can anyone find the Surveying curriculum for this school AKA International Coorespondence School?
>
> I did find this Popular Mechanics link to get your diploma from ICS
Is this the thread to which you are referring? ...[msg=255039]Lucas Column is Good--and Correct--unfortunately[/msg]
That thread consists of 30 posts including your two weak pokes at ICS. It doesn't appear focused on ICS at all.
I don't know Mr. Lucas from Adam nor have I ever sat through any of his seminars. But I would like to know what drives you to deride his credibility based on an educational background that includes training provided by ICS. Further, I'm curious why it's been more than a day and you still haven't found what took me all of a few seconds to find and I haven't seen those course names in over 20 years...
Course Number #P066 Title - Land Surveyor
Looks like that little matchbook cover education will cost you over $5K today.
I wonder what it cost back in 1950...
modernmechanix.com/are-you-suffering-from-hidden-talents
Self Education Texts
My father took a correspondence program from Cooke College in Chicago and has an Electricity diploma. He wired houses in the 1930s before getting into the farm equipment business.
Much later in life my father taught himself to survey using the Boy Scout Surveying Merit Badge Book. I have that on my book shelf.
On my shelf is an ICS Handbook for Building Trades. It is a small hardcover from 1914.
Also on my shelf is an ICS Reference Library for Mathematics, Mechanics, Electricity and Magnetism, Heat and Steam. Large hard cover, 1904.
Paul in PA
Did this hit a sore spot for you?
The courses seem pretty weak on legal issues, sciences and higher math. I am impressed that they still teach Logarithms and lower level math. How about more “the boundary establishment” courses, that Mr. Lucas schools are lacking? Did he look for a school that focuses on these “the boundary establishment” courses? Or, was he simply looking for a degree? Any degree?
Tell me how this school does anything other than give someone a mail order degree. I find human interaction (Socratic method) a better way to teach and test someone's knowledge. This school simply gives someone a check mark to put in a box. IMHO
> Did this hit a sore spot for you?
>
> The courses seem pretty weak on legal issues, sciences and higher math. I am impressed that they still teach Logarithms and lower level math. How about more “the boundary establishment” courses, that Mr. Lucas schools are lacking? Did he look for a school that focuses on these “the boundary establishment” courses? Or, was he simply looking for a degree? Any degree?
>
> Tell me how this school does anything other than give someone a mail order degree. I find human interaction (Socratic method) a better way to teach and test someone's knowledge. This school simply gives someone a check mark to put in a box. IMHO
No sore spot here at all. Just tried to provide you an opportunity to realize you stepped in it. Your OP smelled of a feeble attempt to pile on ICS or other distance learning programs. In that regard, it's gone over like a popcorn fart. FWIW, it is you that appears to have a Lucas and/or ICS sore spot. They must have really hurt you. 🙁
It's obvious you have no knowledge whatsoever regarding the coursework offered by ICS or the distance learning niche they've filled for many decades. So I doubt telling you how learning by reading on your own as opposed to being read to would make any difference. Your "check mark to put in a box" statement shows you've never taken any of the exams associated with the ICS Surveying courses and further proves you know not of what you post.
Have a nice day. 🙂
They must have really hurt you.
It's obvious you have no knowledge whatsoever regarding the coursework offered by ICS or the distance learning niche they've filled for many decades. So I doubt telling you how learning by reading on your own as opposed to being read to would make any difference. Your "check mark to put in a box" statement shows you've never taken any of the exams associated with the ICS Surveying courses and further proves you know not of what you post
You are correct in that listening to Mr. Lucas is VERY painful.
My research shows that ICS gives more GED degrees than college degrees. I didn’t want to pile on too badly.
Take home exams must tax you.