Lots of discussion on here about education and knowledge requirements for land surveyors. I wonder if we could use this resource to develop an online education program say, Land Surveyors University. I think its just to expensive to do such a thing in the traditional brick and mortar sense. I know I don't have the knowledge and resources to do such a thing but I'd like to contribute what I could.
I think the future of much education is going to be by use of the internet and that at some point the traditional way of on campus won't be able to compete with the cost and most students can't afford the brick and mortar way anyway without going into tremendous debt (which probably has a cancellation date soon after the big student loan default gets underway).
Certainly the whole education couldn't be taken on but that big hole at the end where applying the law needs some attention. I think its a nation wide issue and needs to be done in a way where there is a general body of knowledge that mostly applies nationwide and then a tweaking for each state. Who would be better than experienced land surveyors to put forth the effort. Many here or getting along in years and would like to pass on the knowledge so to speak, leave some tracks behind. Boundary surveying is just to small to get the big schools and all that to do it. There is an incredible knowledge and experience base tied into this website, maybe some of the time spent here could be put to a higher use. Courses could be proposed, worked on, reviewed, tweaked, tested, and then put into files and even lectures recorded. The the courses could be served online, almost all the surveying coursework I've done was online. This is using well developed technology, it could be done.
People will say it can't be accredited. That might be true true but most of what an old hand needs to know didn't come from some accredited program. Seekers of knowledge seem to populate these severs here, finding it could be made a lot more convenient. Good mentors could be made more accessible. Mentoring in the workplace just doesn't do it from my view. Many near end of career (especially solo's) don't even mentor employees because they don't have any. For time towards a license, Utah only counts it if you are employed (not sure what you do matters but if you are paid your time counts).
What's important to make the profession valuable to society is the proper knowledge and raising the bar of the services provided. Supplying the knowledge isn't going to happen waiting for the universities or even the state surveying societies to do something. That whole system is just to bogged down in well, you should have an idea and it covers a lot of different things.
If land surveyors want to address the issues and make the profession what we all would like it to be we will need to do it. If you want something done usually you need to do it yourself. Can we start a revolution in land surveying education and practice? Or is it just going to die on the vine or even worse be canceled for not being valuable to society.
Love the idea, but not sure how to implement it.
I for one have learned a lot more with regards to boundary law on this site than I did while obtaining my B.S. in land surveying.
Reading the opposing views on this site has caused me to dive in and study case law to truly comprehend what is expected of us.
If all surveyors would put the time and effort in that is needed to truly locate property boundaries maybe we would gain more respect from the public and wouldn't be considered as just another trade.
We had a boundary law class that covered the basics in college, but instead of a 3 credit class I think there should be at least 12 credits dedicated this.
The University of Wyoming has a distance education program Land Surveying program. They have 25 credits worth of legal classes plus 19 more non-legal credits . I know its not what you are contemplating...but its already accredited.
Salt Lake Community College (AAS degree program) and Utah Valley University (BS program) are working on getting their programs online. SLCC is nearly there with their offerings. This year, I'm in the process of restructuring my Boundary Law 1 and 2 classes from SLCC to fully online. Just wrapping up the first semester of BLaw 1 now. I'll be setting up the BLaw 2 class at SLCC and the Survey Legal Principles class for UVU next semester. These classes are Boundary Law Classes, not including legal descriptions, PLSS, etc. which are usually included with most surveying programs. Those are separate classes under the SLCC and UVU programs.
The class format includes a week long discussion forum ending with a 1.5 hour live online conference for each topic with a weekly follow-up exam. The format seems to be working well, but it's requiring quite a bit of restructuring of the material. Access to online legal research sources available to registered students makes it much easier now to include out-of-state students. The student response so far has been very positive. I'd recommend that anyone considering to enroll to wait for next year as we'll be working out the kinks this go-around.
JBS
aliquot, post: 349102, member: 2486 wrote: The University of Wyoming has a distance education program Land Surveying program. They have 25 credits worth of legal classes plus 19 more non-legal credits . I know its not what you are contemplating...but its already accredited.
Do you have a link to the university website for the online courses?
I believe this is the link http://www.uwyo.edu/civil/landsurvey/
Also noticed the "In The Field" photo at the lower right. Good preparation for the real world of surveying.
Dallas Morlan, post: 349217, member: 6020 wrote: Also noticed the "In The Field" photo at the lower right. Good preparation for the real world of surveying.
LOL, that's a funny pic....
That's a good Idea if you can figger out how to do it.
LRDay, post: 346318, member: 571 wrote: Lots of discussion on here about education and knowledge requirements for land surveyors. I wonder if we could use this resource to develop an online education program say, Land Surveyors University. I think its just to expensive to do such a thing in the traditional brick and mortar sense. I know I don't have the knowledge and resources to do such a thing but I'd like to contribute what I could.
I think the future of much education is going to be by use of the internet and that at some point the traditional way of on campus won't be able to compete with the cost and most students can't afford the brick and mortar way anyway without going into tremendous debt (which probably has a cancellation date soon after the big student loan default gets underway).
Certainly the whole education couldn't be taken on but that big hole at the end where applying the law needs some attention. I think its a nation wide issue and needs to be done in a way where there is a general body of knowledge that mostly applies nationwide and then a tweaking for each state. Who would be better than experienced land surveyors to put forth the effort. Many here or getting along in years and would like to pass on the knowledge so to speak, leave some tracks behind. Boundary surveying is just to small to get the big schools and all that to do it. There is an incredible knowledge and experience base tied into this website, maybe some of the time spent here could be put to a higher use. Courses could be proposed, worked on, reviewed, tweaked, tested, and then put into files and even lectures recorded. The the courses could be served online, almost all the surveying coursework I've done was online. This is using well developed technology, it could be done.
People will say it can't be accredited. That might be true true but most of what an old hand needs to know didn't come from some accredited program. Seekers of knowledge seem to populate these severs here, finding it could be made a lot more convenient. Good mentors could be made more accessible. Mentoring in the workplace just doesn't do it from my view. Many near end of career (especially solo's) don't even mentor employees because they don't have any. For time towards a license, Utah only counts it if you are employed (not sure what you do matters but if you are paid your time counts).
What's important to make the profession valuable to society is the proper knowledge and raising the bar of the services provided. Supplying the knowledge isn't going to happen waiting for the universities or even the state surveying societies to do something. That whole system is just to bogged down in well, you should have an idea and it covers a lot of different things.
If land surveyors want to address the issues and make the profession what we all would like it to be we will need to do it. If you want something done usually you need to do it yourself. Can we start a revolution in land surveying education and practice? Or is it just going to die on the vine or even worse be canceled for not being valuable to society.
LRDay, That sounds like a good idea if you can figger out how to do it!
I'll think about taking the classes!
I see that the Boundary Law class at UVU is cross listed as LEGL-3340. I also see some other classes in the LEGL department that would be good for a land survey student. Is this your class?
You're probably on the something if you can get the land survey program integrated with the undergraduate legal program at UVU. Get it online and it may get lots more students.
For non Utah folks. UVU (Utah Valley University) is Utah's largest public school (33,000 students). It started out as a trade tech school, but has really grown.
Here is a link to the UVU B.S. program.
Looks like a great program coming along there. Several legal courses required and as electives.
That bear appears to have more sense than many of my recent wannabes.
My class is the SURV 4340 (Cross-listed with: LEGL 4340) Surveying Legal Principles. One of primary topics in the 4340 class is on dispute resolution through mediation and litigation. We focus on the role of the surveyor as consultant and expert witness.
It certainly seems to be a good move cross-listing the course with the legal program. I'm anxious to see how many cross-over students we get in the class. This coming semester will be the first time we've run the class with the cross-listing. I've had several students from the SLCC paralegal program who have taken the boundary law courses in past years.
