Utah Valley University Geomatics Program
Here is the course descriptions for a new Land Surveying/geomatics program just begun this school year at Utah Valley University.
Utah Valley University Geomatics Program
Looks good to me! Now if in a few years they can get a tack on boundary law masters degree associated with a law school it would be a lot better.
So what do you think, would you send your kid to this program if he/she wanted to go into surveying?
Different type of curriculum than what I'm used to seeing. Pretty heavy on boundary and light on the technical stuff. Different strokes for different folks.
Not my cup of tea
Ralph
> Utah Valley University Geomatics Program
>
> Here is the course descriptions for a new Land Surveying/geomatics program just begun this school year at Utah Valley University.
>
> Utah Valley University Geomatics Program
>
> Looks good to me! Now if in a few years they can get a tack on boundary law masters degree associated with a law school it would be a lot better.
>
> So what do you think, would you send your kid to this program if he/she wanted to go into surveying?
Yes, looks good to me.
No, I would tell him not to be a surveyor... "Go get a real job!" is what I would say.
Could you imagine graduating from college with student loan debit, no experience, no license, no equipment, and no way to get a job surveying???? And no real solution other than getting a job in something other than surveying... Then when hiring starts you will be competing with seasoned talent, impact players, and professionals???? Bad idea... Send your kid to college to be an accountant, a doctor, hell sending him to college to be a chicken farmer would be a better idea!
> So what do you think, would you send your kid to this program if he/she wanted to go into surveying?
AS - http://www.uvu.edu/geomatics/pdfs-and-docs/as_geom-advising-sheet-11-12_v2.pdf
BS - http://www.uvu.edu/geomatics/pdfs-and-docs/bs_geom-advising-sheet-11-12_v3.pdf
Hmmm, well I am all for post secondary education in surveying so in some ways any program is better than no program.:good: IMHO but I feel accreditation is key for any degree and it appears Utah's program is unaccredited at this time.:-S
Plus.
Since since my Alma-mater is OIT,:hi5: I would play favorites and send them there. 😉
http://www.oit.edu/libraries/geomatics-documents/bs-geomatics-surveying-option.pdf
I think the plan is to be ABET within 5 years. Can a new program start out ABET?
Once this program has gone a few years Utah will require a 4-year degree for a license. I think that is the plan.
I think it is more a land surveying program than an engineering surveying program. So if you don't want to take Physics for Scientists and Engineers, here you go.
I think you have to have graduates before ABET will accredit the program. Part of the review is looking at the tests, test results, lab books, student papers and projects, etc. to see how things were done.
Catch 22: people want to attend an accredited program, so it's hard to get graduates.
> Utah Valley University Geomatics Program
>
> Here is the course descriptions for a new Land Surveying/geomatics program just begun this school year at Utah Valley University.
>
> Utah Valley University Geomatics Program
>
> Looks good to me! Now if in a few years they can get a tack on boundary law masters degree associated with a law school it would be a lot better.
>
> So what do you think, would you send your kid to this program if he/she wanted to go into surveying?
Dang, I'd like to go through that program myself. But, I sure as hell know that not either one of my two sons would. And both of them have spent quite a bit of time with me in the field, and the office, "helping" me over the years. Sad fact is that I wouldn't encourage anyone to take up a career in land surveying today. Flame away if you must, but, even though I myself still love the profession, it does appear to be dying. I didn't root for that or participate in the process. It just happened.
I am proud to know that there are still such bastions of acadamia out there trying to keep up the spirit of such a noble endeavor, however.
> I think the plan is to be ABET within 5 years.:good:
That is great. Their curriculum looks good. I wish them the best and hopefully the local surveyors and surveying society's can reach out to local high schools to promote the program and profession.
> Once this program has gone a few years Utah will require a 4-year degree for a license. I think that is the plan.
Closing the door on experience to become licensed and requiring degree only is a bit short sighted in my opinion. Even though I have a degree I still feel for this profession one can achieve the level of knowledge and skills needed to be competent in surveying. Many can't but that is another rant. Hopefully if the state board does change the states laws to require a degree they allow for a variety of fast track options dealing with degree, no degree, accreditation or not, education + experience, ect.
> I think it is more a land surveying program than an engineering surveying program. So if you don't want to take Physics for Scientists and Engineers, here you go.
Physics is an amazing subject that I personally feel everyone should take and master.. It's the explanation of the world around us. but that's just my Op...;-)
Experience only has already been closed in Utah. It's a two year surveying degree or another degree and about 30 hours survey classes with 4 years experience (and the tests).
My Physics for Scientists and Engineers was kind of a reference to some past discussions. I took mine at the University of Utah way back when. I had to have it for my program (engineering). It was the class at the school that pre med students had to do a whole year and get perfect 4.0 grades or you could just kiss your chances goodbye. We had a lot of pre med's in there. By the end of spring quarter I was just praying for a 2.5 as I had other things besides Physics I needed to do. Physics is a good subject but making it the gateway to the rest of your life is not my idea of it. Oh yeah, and the course was graded on the curve by a guy who new how to do the math and not pad the high end either. Holy Cow will probably chime in.
Nobody would be prevented from taking Physics for Scientists and Engineers on their own if they were so inclined. I took a bunch of extra stuff just for the heck of it.
It looks like a great program and if I knew someone interested in surveying as a carrier I would recommend it.
44 Credits Is Not Light On Anything
Looks to be a well rounded 4 year program.
Paul in PA
ABET Accreditation Depends On Results
As well as curriculum, faculty, staff and commitment.
They would also look at the success rate of graduates on the FS and PS. If you were to get a Utah BS degree in 2013 and they get accredited in 2015, that accreditation includes you.
Many years back my brother graduated from Penn State's Capitol Campus with a Bachelor of Technology in Mechanical Engineering. Later that program became accredited as a BS not a BT and my brother received a Bachelor of Science diploma in the mail.
Paul in PA
Is it a 4 year degree program? Does one come out with a baccalaureate degree?
Pablo
Yes.
Ralph,
I'm only seeing about 15 credits of boundary stuff out of the total 120+- needed?
In NY the engineers are arguing that land boundaries are the "only" thing we have the restricted license to exclusively perform, and we don't share any engineering related tasks. Landscape architects, biologists, soil scientists, etc. say we can't do any of the environmental locations that they do. All of the above are performing GPS measurement and using GIS. If land boundaries are truly so simple as to require less than 15 credits out of the program, then one has to question the validity of the license and supporting programs. Maybe it's true, and is why some people see the profession as a dying one. I don't know.
I'm a firm believer that more technical knowledge is needed. But it needs to be in areas that require a person on the ground, evaluating conditions or evidence, adding value to the measurements for the client. I too am not seeing that in this program. Not seeing it in any programs. The current programs seem well geared toward positions with BLM or federal intelligence job openings, or technicians to work under engineers (with no chance at an engineering license). But I'm not sure they are preparing a graduate for a distinct profession involved with helping clients determine, manage, and develop "land".
I think we have seen the move over the past couple decades toward importance of regulatory boundaries that render a precise determination of ownership boundaries almost irrelevant for larger purposes than putting up a fence. So, if a college education is needed, and it is not in land boundaries, then what does it encompass?
I do respect your opinion, so am wondering what you would like to see included in the program that is not listed? What area of expertise should a graduate have in order to find well paying and meaningful employment?
BTW, for those interested in ABET, this is exactly the kind of question we are required to ask and document in order to gain or keep accreditation. I have been asking this question of NY surveyors for several years now through formal and documented processes. Not getting any real great answer to the greater issues. As illustrated by this thread, some simply believe the game is over. Surveying is not a viable occupation moving into the future. But I think that's only true if one holds a narrow vision of what a surveyor should be.
That's quite a comprehensive curriculum. It's going to be interesting to see the percentage of completions after four years. The local state surveyor's association better be behind this 100% for it to have a chance of success.
Oops, I meant carreer not carrier. My fingers work faster than my brain.
Hi Duane,
Happy New Year, it's always a pleasure to interact with you.
It's no secret that I'm of the school that a Surveyor should be considered an expert measurer. So for me measurement science is what I look for. There probably should be 2 license options.
I could cite several examples of why, including a recent partial building collapse on a project in which I was marginally involved. Most NYS Heavy Civil contracts have it explicitly spelled out that certain critical components of of the contract have to be performed under the auspices of a Licensed Surveyor. These include but are not limited to, monitoring, alignment and wetland delineation . I would hate to give that up, because I can think of no better profession to handle this than Surveyors.
Of course you have the "Been there, done that" type of bozos that contaminate the environment with their pathetic BS, but for the most part a Surveyor should be far and away the most competent person for these tasks.
The nature of these sensitive measurements and the fact that you are competing with other technical professions for the work is the logic behind my thinking.
BTW that doesn't look like a 4 year degree to me.
Ralph
Need to add Common Sense 101. I know plenty of 4 year degree holders who have none...