I am applying to the Texas Board of Professional Land Surveying to take the S.I.T. Exam. Part of that process includes getting a reference from three professional land surveyors. The reference form is three pages long and must be notarized.
To all of the professionals out there, what would you expect or appreciate from a former employee who is making this request?
I had one request that I do this, that I had NEVER worked with. I asked him to come work a day or a week with me, and he declined.
Kinda hard to recommend, someone that I had no knowledge of their work.
N
voidintheabyss, post: 399379, member: 11972 wrote: what would you expect or appreciate from a former employee who is making this request?
1. Reasonable notice when you left employment.
2. A phone call before mailing out the reference documents.
You're miles ahead being courteous enough to ask. As has been said, ask people who can actually answer questions about you. This is the part where you reap the benefits of working hard and treating people right. Just ask politely.
The truth
A Harris, post: 399390, member: 81 wrote: The truth
That is probably the one single most factor, honesty.
Over the years I have found several reference requests in the mail from past employees who apparently had amnesia about the actual time they worked for me.
I think you've heard the brass tacks of the "asking" matter, already. For me, follow up after you get your results (pass or not) is as important (and yes, I was taught this by a crusty old @$!% I used to work for/ mentor if you use modern vocabulary). It's common courtesy and a trait that needs to be cultivated on your professional path.
Nate The Surveyor, post: 399382, member: 291 wrote: I had one request that I do this, that I had NEVER worked with. I asked him to come work a day or a week with me, and he declined.
Kinda hard to recommend, someone that I had no knowledge of their work.N
I guess I don't know exactly what is being asked. If a surveyor has only worked under one PLS how is that person supposed to get the signatures of three PLSs? Are you just being asked to confirm that you know he has worked in the surveying profession? can you confirm that he has integrity, and/or is a good guy? (ie: "I have known Bill Intern for eight years while he has been working with Joe Surveyor, and know him to be a good honest person.)
I have mainly been asked to do references for surveyors who work under my employ, so I don't recall exactly what your are confirming.
I had to go through this process about two years ago when I took the LSIT in Texas. Thankfully I had been able to work under three RPLS at my company. But I have always thought that this requirement would be extremely hard for many that are applying for the LSIT. I believe that their are alot who are trying to become an LSIT that have only worked for one maybe two RPLS. I do not believe an RPLS that you have not worked with day in and day out can honestly be a reference. It is my opinion that if you have worked for one RPLS and have shown that you have the ability, character, and knowledge to take the LIST, that should be enough for the board. I am all for keeping the integrity of the survey profession at a high level. I believe that working under multiple RPLS is also a privilege. Yet, I do not believe it should be a requirement and can impede your climb to RPLS if you have not...... and rant over.
From my experience, candidates for testing have been known by surveyors that they have never worked for and are aware of their skill level.
Being a member of the State Surveying Association can be of benefit in being known.
One of the best reference can be made by someone that has checked into or followed your work for years.
Garrett Bradshaw, post: 399508, member: 12172 wrote: I have always thought that this requirement would be extremely hard for many that are applying for the LSIT.
I'll take the other side of the argument. Until a person has worked with a few different mentors maybe he/she isn't as well rounded as could be.
I knew a guy who was a certain LS's right hand man for over 20 years. When the LS died (suddenly, at the age of 52) this fellow was obliged to get himself licensed in order to carry on the business for the widow. Long story short, it took him several tries.
Mark Mayer, post: 399517, member: 424 wrote: I'll take the other side of the argument. Until a person has worked with a few different mentors maybe he/she isn't as well rounded as could be.
I knew a guy who was a certain LS's right hand man for over 20 years. When the LS died (suddenly, at the age of 52) this fellow was obliged to get himself licensed in order to carry on the business for the widow. Long story short, it took him several tries.
I've heard that argument before, but I wonder if that's unfair to someone who sticks with a job through thick and thin and can hang on to a job without floating from firm to firm. I mean, is a guy who is a productive asset to a good firm that pays well and has respect for his work obligated to quit that job and risk getting into unfavorable employment just to be able to take a test?
Mark Mayer, post: 399517, member: 424 wrote: I'll take the other side of the argument. Until a person has worked with a few different mentors maybe he/she isn't as well rounded as could be.
I knew a guy who was a certain LS's right hand man for over 20 years. When the LS died (suddenly, at the age of 52) this fellow was obliged to get himself licensed in order to carry on the business for the widow. Long story short, it took him several tries.
I agree with you on that it is extremely beneficial to be able to work under many different mentors. I have been lucky enough to do that myself. However, I do not believe that working with at least three RPLS' should be required by the State. Encouraged and explaining the benefits,yes, required, no
Early in one's career arc, it is beneficial to be exposed to different business models. Medium sized firms, all-service firms, sole proprietors, perhaps local agencies. It gives great perspective to the pressures that are brought into play when performing surveys. Direct contact from landowners, versus through agents, architects, engineers, lenders, and others has an impact on how the scope can creep, or be insufficient. Yet the proper methods of establishing, or reestablishing boundaries must be learned and adhered to.
voidintheabyss, post: 399379, member: 11972 wrote: I am applying to the Texas Board of Professional Land Surveying to take the S.I.T. Exam. Part of that process includes getting a reference from three professional land surveyors. The reference form is three pages long and must be notarized.
To all of the professionals out there, what would you expect or appreciate from a former employee who is making this request?
first, make a phone call or stop by and chat if you can
provide a copy of your resume perhaps with some detail if it is brief... date of service, your position(s), and the types of work you did. That would save head scratching and HR records search.
Make sure that you address all of those blanks to fill in, to the best of your recollection. His memory and records may not agree.
PS: provide an addressed envelope with postage... take a bit of the pain out of it. Notarized? WTF?
Its my opinion the SIT portion of the application is merely a character referrence. When your turn in the RPLS app it can have all the experience under one supervising surveyor. They are different forms. I had 4 RPLS character referrences on my SIT then I turned in 3 different character referrences and had experience under 4 different surveyors on the RPLS app.
at one time (1990s) California wanted the forms to be returned to the applicant. That put me in a difficult spot as either a co-worker, subordinate, or supervisor. What if my response was Not Favorable?
I had one youngster that just did not know what he did not know and would not listen... a kinda OK tech. but far from ready to be a PLS. When he asked for the completed form a week or so later I told him I had mailed it in (I had actually done that). He failed the exam that year but passed a few years later.
every state had different requirements for the experience/reference of applicants. some are not much help in determining if the person is actually ready to move up the food chain.
Most Boards have provisions that allow reduction in the number of references. Make the case and be ready to support your argument. If a person wants it they will figure it out. .
Tom Adams, post: 399520, member: 7285 wrote: is a guy who is a productive asset to a good firm that pays well and has respect for his work obligated to quit that job and risk getting into unfavorable employment just to be able to take a test?
Garrett Bradshaw, post: 399521, member: 12172 wrote: Encouraged and explaining the benefits,yes, required, no
I believe that "a productive asset to a good firm" would likely have had sufficient contact with at least 3 professionals by the time he is ready to write, even if he spent the whole time with one firm. If not maybe he isn't ready. But ,there are always those special cases...
thebionicman, post: 399530, member: 8136 wrote: Most Boards have provisions that allow reduction in the number of references...
Tom Adams, post: 399520, member: 7285 wrote: I've heard that argument before, but I wonder if that's unfair to someone who sticks with a job through thick and thin and can hang on to a job without floating from firm to firm. I mean, is a guy who is a productive asset to a good firm that pays well and has respect for his work obligated to quit that job and risk getting into unfavorable employment just to be able to take a test?
I'm sure it is different in other areas of our vast country, but I've never seen an employee acquire licensure and receive any promotion or compensation for the efforts if he or she was working in a production capacity at that firm.
Case in point: I have a colleague that worked for a number of years for another good friend of mine that owned his firm. This young man, although unlicensed, was actually in charge of field crew supervision and scheduling, client contact, document production and preparation. He did it all. We all should be so lucky to have an employee as efficient as he. I whole-heartedly gave him a recommendation as one of two surveyors allowed to do so without actually having been in an employee/employer relationship. He passed his exams with flying colors.
After he had been notified of his licensure he approached me needing some advice. He was thinking about asking his present employer about possibly "buying into the company". He felt as though if he were licensed he should have a 'piece of the action'. Hard as it was to say the words, I told him the way it usually turned out...I had to ask him "why would your present employer even need another licensed surveyor?" The owner was himself licensed and the only bargaining chip this young man had was his position and production within the company. I also had to tell him the honest truth..."One day you're an exemplary employee, the next day you become competition". He disagreed with me and went on to attempt to procure an interest in the firm of which he was an employee....we all know what happened.
A month later we had lunch and he was showing me his new truck and Topcons. He is doing well to this day and is still good friend with his ex-employer.