Degree requirements

Last I checked:

Maine
New Hampshire
Vermont
Massachusetts
Rhode Island
Connecticut
New York
Pennsylvania
Maryland
Virginia
Delaware
North Carolina
Tennessee
Kentucky
Mississippi
Arkansas
Missouri
Oklahoma
Kansas
Nebraska
South Dakota
Colorado
Arizona
Utah
Montana
California
Oregon
Washington

DISCLAIMER

1. No guarantees are made for the accuracy of this list - I'm sure those who know better will respond and tell me I'm full of it.

2. I believe that a number of these states have legislated new requirements however they are being phased in over time to allow for those in the licensure pipeline to get through.

Utah no longer allows experience only. 2 year degree, clock ticking on 4 year degree as program just starting this fall. Once they graduate a 4 year student a four year degree will be required in short order.

Utah

What about comity applicants without a degree?

I compose my list a few years back based on the comity requirements in the event I snap and head for the woods to get out of the Washington DC suburban rat race.

I can confirm NY and CT.

Oops, missed one

North Dakota

(3) All other land surveying applicants not qualifying under
paragraphs 1 and 2 must satisfy the following requirements:
(a) Pass an eight-hour examination in fundamentals of land
surveying.
(b) Have a minimum of eight years of experience in
land surveying work of a character satisfactory to the
board and indicating that the applicant is competent
to practice land surveying. Up to two years of credit
toward experience requirements may be granted upon
completion of equivalent time in a board-approved land
surveying or engineering curriculum.
(c) Pass an examination in the principles and practices of
land surveying.
(d) Pass an examination pertaining to land surveying laws,
procedures, and practices in North Dakota.

However to be honest, until I looked it up I thought the U.S. ceded North Dakota to Manitoba as part of the deal to relocate the Winnipeg Jets to Phoenix.

South Dakota is dropping the no education route.

Tennessee has three ways to qualify, two of which require a four-year degree as part of the standard.

The third avenue is through credible responsible charge experience. When the statute was enacted that brought in the two degree paths to qualification for sitting for the exam, the original six years experience requirement without degree was upped to ten years.

I have not spoken to anyone who took that path to see how stringent the application review was for anyone trying to qualify through experience. If the board makes it virtually impossible to satisfy the requirements, then the third path to qualify becomes moot for most. If they apply the same standards as they did before the statute, then the only thing that changed is the experience went from six years to ten.

North Carolinas rules are (in my sometimes not so humble opinion) the worst possible combination of Degree or no Degree.

We do not have a strict degree requirement but we also have no reasonable way for those without a degree to get a license. Our rules allow the experience only route but only after the candidate has 18 years of experience. Note that that is 18 years before one can apply to take the first exam.

Having said that, I will admit to being at least partly responsible for those rules. Back when a degree requirement was being proposed I asked if anyone had done research to see how successful those with degrees were compared to those without. Turns out that research is what the board used to come up with the 18 year figure. I was told they found that without a degree a candidate was unlikely to be successful until they had that much time in the field.

Larry P

If I was declared License Requirement Czar

I think I'd go with:

1.) Four year surveying degree; take FS the spring of your senior year, four years experience for the PS/State Exam

2.) Four year degree in anything; two years experience to take the FS, another four for the PS/State Exam

3.) No degree; two years experience to take the *new exam*, another two before the FS, another four for the PS/State Exam.

The extra exam for the non degree path wouldn't be "survey related", what it would encompass would be that the candidate would have to display the ability to think critically, to evaluate data and reach a reasoned conclusion rather than memorize answers. In the end, I think this is the true value of a college education and what separates it from secondary education. College isn't about learning job skills, that's what a trade school is for, college is about learning how to think.

There is something like this set-up in effect in California for lawyers. California is the only state (I think) that will allow graduates from a non ABA accredited correspondence school to sit for the Bar Exam, however after the first year of law school, that have to pass an additional preliminary exam, the Baby Bar Exam

Dave,
Ncees did a questionnaire to each board in the US. They have the results posted on their website.

http://www.ncees.org/Licensing_boards.php

Select "Licensing board survey results" on the left hand side of the page and navigate to the results for the desired questions.

I just did a little presentation and tried to count up some of the same data but there is a lot of information there and a lot of checking needs to be done.

I found at least 14 states require some type of education for their exam requirements either the fundamental exam or the PLS exam. Good luck with your hunt.

Utah

> What about comity applicants without a degree?
>
> I compose my list a few years back based on the comity requirements in the event I snap and head for the woods to get out of the Washington DC suburban rat race.

James,

Generally speaking if you were licensed (in your state) before the new requirements went into place you can still get licensed by comity. From what I have read/seen only the requirements in place at the time you were first licensed apply.

Cy

If I was declared License Requirement Czar

I would require a 4 year degree in Surveying (not Engineering-if they pulled out a calculator for any reason whatsoever it would get the 4lb hammer treatment) then 6 years of field experience under a real Party Chief (not a glorified Engineering Technician with an RTK rover) then maybe I would let them see the inside of an office.

Utah

DAW's question concerned taking the FLS exam. I'm not sure about comity in Utah. At present I think you may get a Utah license if you have a license in another state. I've heard rumblings of shutting that down at some point in the future maybe when the 4-year degree requirement comes on line.

I have no interest in a license in any other state.

NY 8 years experience "acceptable" to the board (equates to probably at least 10 years in the business) will get you into the exam. In fact, it's pretty typical for it to take 10 years even with a 2 year surveying degree. Not sure about time for those with the 4 year surveying degree as most of those move to States that place more value on the education. Same scenario for the FE but 12 years "acceptable" experience. With the experience route you are instantly qualified for all the exams, not just the fundamentals. If I recall you can also get into the BAR exam without a law degree but I think some kind of college degree may be required.

In NY a 2 year surveying degree will not get you into the FS, and you can't take the FE in your final semester of a 4 year engineering program. Some NY students go to Pennsylvania to take the FS after 2 years of survey schooling. Some NY students go to Vermont to take the FE in their senior year of the 4 year engineering degree.

So, with or without a 2 year surveying specific degree, look to 10 years before being admitted to the FS in NY.

So, Larry, how are they handling Comity requirements? It says must meet current requirements and those requirements require you to wait 7 years after FS. So does that mean that if I passed PS in my home state 6 mo after taking FS that I would still have to wait 7 more years of experience to sit for test, or would they say " he has 20 years total and is licensed in multiple states so we will allow him to take the state specific"?

I can not say for certain but I believe if you have a comparable license in another jurisdiction our board is willing to let you sit for the State Specific exam.

Having said that, I do know of one PE who has had his PE license for several years. His degree is in Civil Engineering. They have insisted that he go back and start with the Fundamentals Exam and pass every exam before he will be given his PLS.

Given that it wasn't that many years ago that our board offered to give every PE who wanted to also be a PLS their license if they would write a letter asking for it, we agreed this was not right. But it is what it is.

Larry P