> I don't like to resection (really free stationing when using angles and distances) to other surveyor's points, particularly record points that are 2D only.
>
> This assumes Spectra Precision is similar to TDS which I think it is.
>
> Assuming you want to set line points from 110 to 111 I would do it this way:
> 1. Set a spike (or whatever you normally use for a control point) at your desired instrument location.
> 2. Get a compass bearing from your new control point to 110 or make up one (it doesn't matter).
> 3. Set up your total station over the control point.
> 4. Start a new job in your data collector and enter assumed coordinates for your new control point (N10000.000,E15000.000,Elev100.000). I would call it point number 1 but you can use any number you like. Aside-I typically use 1-99 for found monuments, 101 to ? For traverse points, some convenient number series for topo points.
> 5. Set up your instrument set up in the data collector on point 1. Hint-always use accurate heights for your instrument and targets because we live in a 3D world.
> 6. Use the backsight on a known bearing routine. Aim your backsight and zero.
> 7. Go into set collection and collect sets from backsight known bearing to point 110 which is the same as your backsight. This will calculate a coordinate at 110.
> 8. Do a new instrument set up at point 1 in the data collector but this time backsight a known point which is point 110.
> 9. Go into set collection and collect sets to point 111.
> 10. Do the same for point 112.
> 11. Rotate your job about 110, existing bearing 110 to 111, new bearing per your map.
> 12. Now you can inverse from 110 to 111 and see how the horizontal distance (won't be exactly the same) matches record. Do the same for 111 to 112 (expect the bearing and distance to be a little different).
> 13. Now go into the stake to a line routine, line from 110 to 111, stake points on line to your heart's content with tall stakes such as laths or 8' long 3/4 PVC pipes painted for easy visibility.
> 14. Most important-visually check your line points by sighting down the line and making sure your stakes line up and run in an actual straight line from 110 to 111.
>
> The method I describe is more reliable than resectioning for getting points on line. Resectioning can do weird things if your record coordinates aren't nearly perfect. There is no substitute for good old fashioned common sense eyeballing set points for reasonableness. If something is 5' off you should see it.
Hi, Dave: I learned a lot today from all of you! Looks like many here avoid resection. Nothing like knowledge gained from experience. The method just got easier. Spectra and TDS are virtually the same as far as I know. Tomorrow morning I'll get to work. Thank you for all the practical hints you've listed. With all the contribution I think I will compile the perfect work flow.
I am so glad that found this forum!! Each and everyone of you are so generous with your time and knowledge. Wow!
Now I will put all this to work and report back before posting another question...
If you set up a network of control points around your monastery and you are confident in the coordinates then you can free station new points in convenient locations as long as you can see enough of your control points.
You could benefit from a least squares adjustment software such as StarNet or Columbus. StarNet has a RW5 converter, I'm not sure about Columbus but it is cheaper. With LSA you can take a network of measurements and process simultaneously so that you get the best coordinates for your control points. Then you would unstoppable anywhere on your monastery.
Back 2 Basics--Resection>Yswami
My mistake. Your beard has changed slightly form the "Meet the Monks" page 🙂
Aloha right back at you, from Cape Cod..... about as far east from you as you can be and still remain in the USA, with the exception of parts of ME that no one lives in anyway! 🙂
This thread is amazing. BEERLEG rocks.
Thank you, Yoginatha Swami, Monk that Loves Land Surveying, and all those who contributed.
This is better than Politics or Religion any day.
I use resection a lot, but it can easily be abused. Ignoring one large residual can make everything look great when really you are way out.
recipes
do you have any recipes using bhut jolokia paste? i grew way too many of them last year, so i made a hot sauce, lethal hot. by the way, the seeds were from a hawaii farm
With modern equipment and data collectors, resection is a very powerful tool. Many of the places I work (dams) have up to a hundred or more monumented points with coordinates that are very accurate (<3 mm uncertainty). I can pretty much setup anywhere and resect a good position. I use TSC2 with an S6, and get excellent results. By having more than the minimum number of stations, you can get an estimate of the accuracy.
Another place that resection is very useful is when i am traversing down a river or stream. Often, I am in the middle of the river, and cannot set points. When we end the traverse for the day, or want to be able to come back to a certain location, I will set 4 points reflectorless (PK's in trees or paint marks on concrete walls), and store their positions. Then, next day I can setup and resect my position, and get back on the same system (not the same point!).
recipes
> do you have any recipes using bhut jolokia paste? i grew way too many of them last year, so i made a hot sauce, lethal hot. by the way, the seeds were from a hawaii farm
Aloha, Eddie:
I don't know what bhut jolokia paste is...India cooking changes from one region to another. I do have a hot sauce recipe. Let me figure out the ratio of ingredients. I measure things when I cook B-)
> If you set up a network of control points around your monastery and you are confident in the coordinates then you can free station new points in convenient locations as long as you can see enough of your control points.
>
> You could benefit from a least squares adjustment software such as StarNet or Columbus. StarNet has a RW5 converter, I'm not sure about Columbus but it is cheaper. With LSA you can take a network of measurements and process simultaneously so that you get the best coordinates for your control points. Then you would unstoppable anywhere on your monastery.
Aloha, Dave, this is in my Back2Basics to ask list. Will post separately in the near future. I've heard from couple others too about the importance of setting control network.
Thanks
>
Aloha, John: This is nice. First time seeing a setup in river bed! Good to hear the positive side of the use of resection when it is appropriate.
> This thread is amazing. BEERLEG rocks.
> Thank you, Yoginatha Swami, Monk that Loves Land Surveying, and all those who contributed.
> This is better than Politics or Religion any day.
>
> I use resection a lot, but it can easily be abused. Ignoring one large residual can make everything look great when really you are way out.
Aloha, Larry:
It is really a wonderful feeling to get all these guidance! Thank you!!
Report from the field: Back 2 Basics--Resection
> 1. Set a spike (or whatever you normally use for a control point) at your desired instrument location.
> 2. Get a compass bearing from your new control point to 110 or make up one (it doesn't matter).
> 3. Set up your total station over the control point.
> 4. Start a new job in your data collector and enter assumed coordinates for your new control point (N10000.000,E15000.000,Elev100.000). I would call it point number 1 but you can use any number you like. Aside-I typically use 1-99 for found monuments, 101 to ? For traverse points, some convenient number series for topo points.
> 5. Set up your instrument set up in the data collector on point 1. Hint-always use accurate heights for your instrument and targets because we live in a 3D world.
> 6. Use the backsight on a known bearing routine. Aim your backsight and zero.
> 7. Go into set collection and collect sets from backsight known bearing to point 110 which is the same as your backsight. This will calculate a coordinate at 110.
> 8. Do a new instrument set up at point 1 in the data collector but this time backsight a known point which is point 110.
> 9. Go into set collection and collect sets to point 111.
> 10. Do the same for point 112.
> 11. Rotate your job about 110, existing bearing 110 to 111, new bearing per your map.
> 12. Now you can inverse from 110 to 111 and see how the horizontal distance (won't be exactly the same) matches record. Do the same for 111 to 112 (expect the bearing and distance to be a little different).
> 13. Now go into the stake to a line routine, line from 110 to 111, stake points on line to your heart's content with tall stakes such as laths or 8' long 3/4 PVC pipes painted for easy visibility.
> 14. Most important-visually check your line points by sighting down the line and making sure your stakes line up and run in an actual straight line from 110 to 111.
Aloha Dave and everyone:
The above is the first exercise I did today. Report below...
1. Okay
2. Got the compass bearing; however, did see where I would use the azimuth I wrote down?
3. Okay
4. Okay, I called it pt #200 ( and I just realized...that I use the existing job file instead of creating new job...)
5. Okay so far
6. In the BS setup window. Choose the "known point," Set Occupied point to #200 and set the HI.
Next window. Didn't do anything to BS Azimuth (should I have entered the compass bearing here? But I set the BS point instead by mistake...I just realized that when I got back to office.) Circle was set to zero.
7. I've never used the "set collection" menu before...I assume that is "Multiple Sideshots?" I used the "Traverse/Sideshot" instead. Took the shot and saved it as #201
8. Okay--new setup. Occupied Pt #200 and BS to Pt#201
9 & 10. Okay; however, I use the "Traverse/Sideshot."
11. In the rotate menu...selected all four points 200, 201, 202 and 203. Used 110 as the rotation point. Choose the "old and new azimuth" method. Entered old azimuth which I got by inversing 201 to 202. New azimuth from the map (deed).
12. Horizontal distance per deed from 110 to 111 is 334.6 ft. and the HD from 201 to 202 is 334.585ft.
HD per deed from 111 to 112 is 39.5 ft. and the HD from 202 to 203 is 39.51ft. This good right?
13. I didn't get stake anything today since it was about the rain here. Packed everything came back to office.
I realize this method works for staking the line as you said but it doesn't tie into the existing coordinates. I uploaded the four point to my computer. Moved them to the exact location of 110, 111 and 112. Now the 200 station setup point is tied in. Did I do this correctly?
Next is to setup on the 200 and stake out all the points to make sure I have every thing is correct. Then stake the line. After that I need to work on the method Kris described which ties everything to the existing coordinates. 
Report from the field: Back 2 Basics--Resection
It sounds like you did good. It isn't that critical to set an true azimuth from 200 to 110 since you rotated later.
Yes your distance checks sound good.
I don't know if you know this so I won't assume you do...azimuths are directions measured clockwise from north. Quadrant bearings are angles measured in the four quadrants, north east, south east, south west, and north west. North 60 degrees East would be measured 60 degrees clockwise from north, South 60 degrees East would be measured 60 degrees counter-clockwise from south, South 60 degrees West would be measured 60 degrees clockwise from south, and North 60 degrees West would be measured 60 degrees counter-clockwise from north. This is an old system that simplified a lot of calculations. For example N60W is 180 degrees from S60E.
Multiple side shots has you do one backsight, direct and reversed then a series of foresights direct and reversed. I never used it when I was using a TDS Ranger.
Set Collection is a routine that collects angles in sets between a single backsight and a single foresight. One set is BS D&R and FS D&R. Typically you do at least 3 sets so that if two of them match and a third one doesn't, then the third one is probably bad. It is a more reliable way to collect angles and distances since you aren't relying on one direct backsight and one direct foresight as is typical for topo. Pairs of observations in both faces is more accurate.
For lining in points Traverse/Sideshot is probably fine as long as you check your backsight at the end of your setup to make sure nothing drifted.
Report from the field: Back 2 Basics--Resection
Aloha, Dave:
> It sounds like you did good. It isn't that critical to set an true azimuth from 200 to 110 since you rotated later.
>
Okay, thanks for the confirmation.
> Yes your distance checks sound good.
>
Great!
> I don't know if you know this so I won't assume you do...azimuths are directions measured clockwise from north. Quadrant bearings are angles measured in the four quadrants, north east, south east, south west, and north west. North 60 degrees East would be measured 60 degrees clockwise from north, South 60 degrees East would be measured 60 degrees counter-clockwise from south, South 60 degrees West would be measured 60 degrees clockwise from south, and North 60 degrees West would be measured 60 degrees counter-clockwise from north. This is an old system that simplified a lot of calculations. For example N60W is 180 degrees from S60E.
>
I studied it a bit. Then I learned from our local surveyor here that in Hawaii we use South Azimuth. Everything measured clockwise from South. Apparently, the first surveyor thought Hawaii was in Southern Hemisphere! The tradition continues. I feel comfortable with azimuth but can figure out bearings when I need to.
> Multiple side shots has you do one backsight, direct and reversed then a series of foresights direct and reversed. I never used it when I was using a TDS Ranger.
>
> Set Collection is a routine that collects angles in sets between a single backsight and a single foresight. One set is BS D&R and FS D&R. Typically you do at least 3 sets so that if two of them match and a third one doesn't, then the third one is probably bad. It is a more reliable way to collect angles and distances since you aren't relying on one direct backsight and one direct foresight as is typical for topo. Pairs of observations in both faces is more accurate.
>
I didn't know this! Looks like a very important step. I wonder how to do this in survey pro? I must add this to my Back2Basics list.
> For lining in points Traverse/Sideshot is probably fine as long as you check your backsight at the end of your setup to make sure nothing drifted.
Okay will do this in the future--checking the backsight at the end.
The more I learned, the more I realize how much I don't know!
Report from the field: Back 2 Basics--Resection
South azimuth was used by the National Geodetic Survey in NAD27 until the 1980s.
Your map looks like north azimuth unless south is up the page.
