> "Error circle" is the technical term for minimum and the maximum possible errors. Right?
>
> Thanks
Well, it would be the estimated different errors which would be less than the absolute maximums. But using the "maximum" is close enough for you to just observe the differences.
Your iphone would work fine. You're only trying to get close. In fact you could use any bearing you like if you want but the amount of rotation would increase significantly the farther off you are. It would be helpful to you to draw a diagram for yourself so that you can visualize what you are doing. Be sure to remember to re-solve your backsight azimuth after rotating.
Perhaps I can get you to help me perfect my saag paneer and chana masala! Indian food is one of my favorites and I am learning to cook various dishes. It frequently turns out better than what the restraunts serve here.
Just because I'm paranoid, doesn't mean they aren't out to get me.
> Your iphone would work fine. You're only trying to get close. In fact you could use any bearing you like if you want but the amount of rotation would increase significantly the farther off you are. It would be helpful to you to draw a diagram for yourself so that you can visualize what you are doing. Be sure to remember to re-solve your backsight azimuth after rotating.
>
> Perhaps I can get you to help me perfect my saag paneer and chana masala! Indian food is one of my favorites and I am learning to cook various dishes. It frequently turns out better than what the restraunts serve here.
Thanks Williwaw!
Yes, I'd happy to share with you recipes. Our cooking are mostly South Indian cooking. However, we do various dishes from other tradition including Western i.e. bread, pasta etc. All are either vegetarian or vegan.
The key to make paneer dish to make the perfect paneer. We found mixing vinegar and yogurt will give you an excellent texture.
Make sure your whole milk is well heated. Double boiler is the best since you'll avoid burning of the milk. Here is what we do...you can change the ratio to the amount of milk you are using. For four gallons of milk use one cup of apple cider vinegar and three cups of yogurt. Mix both of them together first then slowly add to the milk. Stir it well. Turn off the heat. Let is rest for five minutes. Then hang in some where above the kitchen sink in a cheese cloth to drain for at least 2 to 3 hours. Alternately, you could press it in colander with cheese cloth and all with some weight i.e pot with some water. But this will make it a bit harder.
My channa dhal recipe is slight different then what you would eat in restaurants. It calls for a lot of fresh vegetables. I don't measure things when I cook. Let me think a bit more about it specially the ratio of ingredients and will email you.
Aloha
> I think a resection as you are mentioning it here is a poor idea. I would create a dummy set of coordinates, calling your instrument 2, backsight on the Western end of the 334' line, and turn into the Eastern end of the 334 foot line. Then, rotate and translate those values and voila, you're on his bearing base and relative. You can then check into the third point.
>
> The reason I think it's poor is there is a poor angle of incidence between the Northern end of the 40' line and the Eastern end of the 334' foot line. I'd use the KISS principle here and roll on.
>
> Also, keep in mind that you're resecting into someone else's work with maybe some knowledge of the procedure, but that doesn't mean that the stakeout was very good. I'm not trashing his name, but you can survey better than you can lay out, so always, when available, tie into what the other guy found, not what he set.
Aloha, Kris: this is the third method share with me. I am excited to experiment them all. I hope post the results of my finding through different methods.
Thank you for the reminder note about going back to found monuments!
See here.
Step by step method without resection.
1. Setup on instrument point, shoot distance to one of the corners .
2. Enter say 5000 5000 into the data collector for point 1 , this is now the instrument point , add the distance shot to the north of point 1 .
3. Enter that coordinate into the data collector.
4. Do a backsight check with data collector, should be flat.
5. Now locate third corner .
6. Enter record information into data collector.
7 rotate the longest line to the record line .
8 . Your now on your deed basis of bearing.
9'. Translate if coordinate location is important.
Resections can be a pain if the wrong points are used , and then your left walking back to the points to locate them for real. I only use resection on control I know is good and set buy me . Mainly construction staking jobs. The method above will keep you from doing it twice and you have hard points to compute to.
Also I have a strict rule not to rotate field points , but rather rotate the record to the field. Then fix in office .but if done on the first observation it's ok.
Aloha, Kris: the sketch you made was immensely helpful to visualize with the explanation you've shared earlier. This going to be my first exercise.
Now this leaves only one question...maybe a Survey Pro users in the forum can say few words...
How do I create assumed coordinates in Survey Pro...simply add a point with 5000,5000?
Or do I simply create a point where I have the total station placed on the drawing...which is -1807851.424 (N) -352539.855 (S) and simply add this as a new point-- #2? Kris this is what you meant? Then back sight to 110. There after shoot 110 as #1 and 111 as #3?
This is the coordinates I have for the three points.
ID N E ELV
110 -1807632.906 -352775.794 0
111 -1807814.96 -352495.009 0
112 -1807777.729 -352481.784 0
> Step by step method without resection.
>
> 1. Setup on instrument point, shoot distance to one of the corners .
> 2. Enter say 5000 5000 into the data collector for point 1 , this is now the instrument point , add the distance shot to the north of point 1 .
> 3. Enter that coordinate into the data collector.
> 4. Do a backsight check with data collector, should be flat.
> 5. Now locate third corner .
> 6. Enter record information into data collector.
> 7 rotate the longest line to the record line .
> 8 . Your now on your deed basis of bearing.
> 9'. Translate if coordinate location is important.
>
> Resections can be a pain if the wrong points are used , and then your left walking back to the points to locate them for real. I only use resection on control I know is good and set buy me . Mainly construction staking jobs. The method above will keep you from doing it twice and you have hard points to compute to.
>
>
> Also I have a strict rule not to rotate field points , but rather rotate the record to the field. Then fix in office .but if done on the first observation it's ok.
Aloha, Djames:
I didn't see your note before I reply to Kris. Now, I am a bit confused. Are you referring to Kris' sketch? Or this is similar but independent of his sketch.
One thing that's not clear is SurveyPro doesn't allow me to take shot without setup. However, I do see the distance on the data collector when remote prism is locked. But I can only shot with proper station setup. Maybe I am missing something in my way of using SurveyPro. Pardon my ignorance here.
Thanks
> Aloha, Kris: the sketch you made was immensely helpful to visualize with the explanation you've shared earlier. This going to be my first exercise.
>
> Now this leaves only one question...maybe a Survey Pro users in the forum can say few words...
> How do I create assumed coordinates in Survey Pro...simply add a point with 5000,5000?
>
> Or do I simply create a point where I have the total station placed on the drawing...which is -1807851.424 (N) -352539.855 (S) and simply add this as a new point-- #2? Kris this is what you meant? Then back sight to 110. There after shoot 110 as #1 and 111 as #3?
>
> This is the coordinates I have for the three points.
> ID N E ELV
> 110 -1807632.906 -352775.794 0
> 111 -1807814.96 -352495.009 0
> 112 -1807777.729 -352481.784 0
Your first assumption is correct. Load all of your normal calculated points.
Go to the field and set up where you can see the two points.
Enter a new point in the same job with whatever number and coordinate you want.
Take a compass bearing to the backsight. Shoot a distance to the backsight.
Use point in direction and occupy your total station number, use your compass bearing and the distance you shot. Compute a point number at this point.
Turn the angle to the second corner, shoot a distance and record as another value.
Now you have calculated values and dummy values. The only difference is you have your occupy point in the mix.
Rotate the three dummy points to the record bearing.
Translate one of the dummy corner coordinates to your actual value.
Now your occupy value is in congruence with your calculate values.
Inverse your third point to the calculated value and evaluate.
Shoot the last corner and inverse them as well and evaluate.
If your values are within the tolerances of your project, roll on. If not, the corners were not staked where they were supposed to have been.
You'll do fine. We will be happy to be your support staff. 🙂
That is the method I use, I stay away from resections. I do use false coordinates for the instrument location and as you say, add the distance that was shot to the back sight to the false North coordinates of the gun. Later I will translate the false BS coordinates to the existing work I am trying to retrace or add to, then rotate around that point to so the bearing from the BS to the FS matches record. That puts me onto the existing system. Yep, you need to look at the results and make some choices because your results seldom match, close but seldom exact but usually acceptable. Resections are good tools for the drafting table where you can check your baseline with a scale, in the field where the baseline's actual distance is likely different from record, don't use them until that that baseline has been checked.
jud
> > Aloha, Kris: the sketch you made was immensely helpful to visualize with the explanation you've shared earlier. This going to be my first exercise.
> >
> > Now this leaves only one question...maybe a Survey Pro users in the forum can say few words...
> > How do I create assumed coordinates in Survey Pro...simply add a point with 5000,5000?
> >
> > Or do I simply create a point where I have the total station placed on the drawing...which is -1807851.424 (N) -352539.855 (S) and simply add this as a new point-- #2? Kris this is what you meant? Then back sight to 110. There after shoot 110 as #1 and 111 as #3?
> >
> > This is the coordinates I have for the three points.
> > ID N E ELV
> > 110 -1807632.906 -352775.794 0
> > 111 -1807814.96 -352495.009 0
> > 112 -1807777.729 -352481.784 0
>
> Your first assumption is correct. Load all of your normal calculated points.
> Go to the field and set up where you can see the two points.
> Enter a new point in the same job with whatever number and coordinate you want.
> Take a compass bearing to the backsight. Shoot a distance to the backsight.
> Use point in direction and occupy your total station number, use your compass bearing and the distance you shot. Compute a point number at this point.
Everything is very clear except "use point in direction" is that a feature in your data collector. I don't see that in my Survey Pro??
> Turn the angle to the second corner, shoot a distance and record as another value.
>
> Now you have calculated values and dummy values. The only difference is you have your occupy point in the mix.
> Rotate the three dummy points to the record bearing.
> Translate one of the dummy corner coordinates to your actual value.
> Now your occupy value is in congruence with your calculate values.
> Inverse your third point to the calculated value and evaluate.
>
> Shoot the last corner and inverse them as well and evaluate.
> If your values are within the tolerances of your project, roll on. If not, the corners were not staked where they were supposed to have been.
>
> You'll do fine. We will be happy to be your support staff. 🙂
THANK YOU!!
A Silva Ranger pocket compass is very handy. I use the quadrant style. You can set the declination into it.
You may want to acquire some yellow bearing tree tags from a forestry supplier if you have monuments deep in the woods. Nail the tags to trees around the monument, facing it (but leave the nails sticking out a couple of inches to allow for growth). Use your compass to measure bearings to the tags from the monument then measure then distances to the tag. Before you nail up the tags scratch the data onto it with a concrete scribe. Take notes for your records, include tree species and dbh. You need to reverse your bearings before scratching onto the tag. If you really want to get fancy blaze the tree first but paint the blaze with tree paint then attach the tag. Don't blaze your neighbor's tree without permission. This makes finding deep woods monuments much faster in future years.
Yes, point in direction is a function in the cogo portion of survey pro.
However, as with most things, there are always more than one way to skin a cat.
Create your occupy point the same way as above
Go to traverse/sideshot. Set up your occupy and backsight as the same number. Backsight with an angle of zero and put in your distance to the backsight.
Then swap your occupy and backsight to the proper dummy values and continue with the same procedure as above.
Or, assume your backsight value is east or west, it doesn't matter, but it needs to be in the right direction
Subtract the distance you shot from your easting and keep the same northing and store that point. It doesn't matter since you're gonna rotate and translate them to real world values.
You'll do well.
Is Spectra Precision similar to TDS where if you backsight on a bearing it doesn't calculate and store a coordinate for the backsight? You have to side shot your backsight as a foresight to calculate a coordinate.
P.S. BunBun objects to your use of the "skin a cat" metaphor. He's acting weird, I think Doozey the female, half his size, is picking on him, biting his nose, etc, giving him anxiety attacks. He should just sit on her but he's too docile for that.
Mr monk
shoot the first distance with the instrument only . Then add to the north of the 5000,5000 point. Then enter into the data collector. Make sure that distance is horizontal not slope distance..
I don't like to resection (really free stationing when using angles and distances) to other surveyor's points, particularly record points that are 2D only.
This assumes Spectra Precision is similar to TDS which I think it is.
Assuming you want to set line points from 110 to 111 I would do it this way:
1. Set a spike (or whatever you normally use for a control point) at your desired instrument location.
2. Get a compass bearing from your new control point to 110 or make up one (it doesn't matter).
3. Set up your total station over the control point.
4. Start a new job in your data collector and enter assumed coordinates for your new control point (N10000.000,E15000.000,Elev100.000). I would call it point number 1 but you can use any number you like. Aside-I typically use 1-99 for found monuments, 101 to ? For traverse points, some convenient number series for topo points.
5. Set up your instrument set up in the data collector on point 1. Hint-always use accurate heights for your instrument and targets because we live in a 3D world.
6. Use the backsight on a known bearing routine. Aim your backsight and zero.
7. Go into set collection and collect sets from backsight known bearing to point 110 which is the same as your backsight. This will calculate a coordinate at 110.
8. Do a new instrument set up at point 1 in the data collector but this time backsight a known point which is point 110.
9. Go into set collection and collect sets to point 111.
10. Do the same for point 112.
11. Rotate your job about 110, existing bearing 110 to 111, new bearing per your map.
12. Now you can inverse from 110 to 111 and see how the horizontal distance (won't be exactly the same) matches record. Do the same for 111 to 112 (expect the bearing and distance to be a little different).
13. Now go into the stake to a line routine, line from 110 to 111, stake points on line to your heart's content with tall stakes such as laths or 8' long 3/4 PVC pipes painted for easy visibility.
14. Most important-visually check your line points by sighting down the line and making sure your stakes line up and run in an actual straight line from 110 to 111.
The method I describe is more reliable than resectioning for getting points on line. Resectioning can do weird things if your record coordinates aren't nearly perfect. There is no substitute for good old fashioned common sense eyeballing set points for reasonableness. If something is 5' off you should see it.
> A Silva Ranger pocket compass is very handy. I use the quadrant style. You can set the declination into it.
>
> You may want to acquire some yellow bearing tree tags from a forestry supplier if you have monuments deep in the woods. Nail the tags to trees around the monument, facing it (but leave the nails sticking out a couple of inches to allow for growth). Use your compass to measure bearings to the tags from the monument then measure then distances to the tag. Before you nail up the tags scratch the data onto it with a concrete scribe. Take notes for your records, include tree species and dbh. You need to reverse your bearings before scratching onto the tag. If you really want to get fancy blaze the tree first but paint the blaze with tree paint then attach the tag. Don't blaze your neighbor's tree without permission. This makes finding deep woods monuments much faster in future years.
Hi Dave, Thanks for the ideas and suggestions. I like the tag idea. Will look into buying them online.
Btw, is dbh?
> Yes, point in direction is a function in the cogo portion of survey pro.
>
> However, as with most things, there are always more than one way to skin a cat.
> Create your occupy point the same way as above
> Go to traverse/sideshot. Set up your occupy and backsight as the same number. Backsight with an angle of zero and put in your distance to the backsight.
> Then swap your occupy and backsight to the proper dummy values and continue with the same procedure as above.
>
> Or, assume your backsight value is east or west, it doesn't matter, but it needs to be in the right direction
> Subtract the distance you shot from your easting and keep the same northing and store that point. It doesn't matter since you're gonna rotate and translate them to real world values.
>
> You'll do well.
Thanks Kris! Found the function. Now it is all coming together.
Yes there more than one way to peel a mongo--vegetarian version of the metaphor. This will make Dave's cat BunBun happy!
> Mr monk
> shoot the first distance with the instrument only . Then add to the north of the 5000,5000 point. Then enter into the data collector. Make sure that distance is horizontal not slope distance..
Thanks Djames, will add this to my work flow.
Diameter (of the trunk) at breast height, typically in even inches, e.g. 10", 12", 14", etc.