:good:
"there is nothing I learned back then that I use today."
Sure you do. Perhaps incognizant of, or subliminally (try to say that correctly after a six pack), but utilized. B-)
> Probably many will disagree, but I say bring back the basic survey course for CE students.
No disagreement here. Im all for CE programs requiring survey courses. My alma matter's (OIT) civil program required them. Oregon State (OSU) goes beyond that and allows the graduate to go further into the surveying realm. They also offer a masters in Surveying. There are a few OSU grads who post on this board. All top notch surveyors to boot.
> Based on personal experience, I don't see a four year civil engineering degree equates to anything in the surveying world.
Not totally true. It gives the person the background in mathematics to do whatever is necessary.
I only wish that my first degree had counted more toward one and I would have gone after it. 100 more college hours WITH three degrees was going to be more than I wanted.
John
Geodesy...is Geodesy...not really surveying, but I see your point.
Sorry Larry, I would walk out. Paying that kind of money to learn how to think?
What I trying to say is engineering is engineering surveying is surveying (so profound, i know).
There is so much to the world of Land Surveying, that a 'parallel' profession such as civil engineering, doesn't give one nearly enough skill set to become a surveyor.
I just don't think if one has a degree in civil engineering, it worth all that much in Land Surveying.
> When I was in college they made it quite clear to us. "We are not here to teach you how to do anything. We are here to teach you how to think. Once you know how to think, you can teach yourself how to do anything you need to do. If you want to know how to do a particular task, go to a tech school. This is a university, not a tech school."
>
> Larry P
:good:
That's exactly what I told my oldest son before he began college.
Brian,
Most of the states I'm licensed in are made up of both licensed engineers and land surveyors with a few members of the general public thrown in to spice things up. If I recall correctly the state specific survey exams I took were developed by licensed land surveyors. While property surveying is the sole preview of land surveyor's, engineers can provide topographic mapping and construction layout on their own projects in OR, CA & WA. In Idaho, as you know, control, topo and layout do not require a licensed land surveyor so maybe there could be a split. But lets face it, land surveyors historically are a specialized branch of engineering. I'm not sure what is wrong with being called that.
Go to Ferris State University. In four years you will have a degree in engineering and surveying that is Abet accredited. I wrote both the FS and FE exams within one year of graduation. Have not gotten the PE yet, because I am to busy surveying. But if work slows, I might.
Scott PS EIT
Go Beavs,
When I attended, all CE majors had to take a basic surveying course. Hell, even us geoscience / cartography types had to. As a side note, I think you can get a Doctorate there as well.
Remember that next time you turn on you black box GNSS receiver.
:good: :good: :good: :good:
A friend's father was the president of a regional bank when we were about to graduate from university. A comment he made to us one day still sticks with me. His statement was that when he was hiring, he was not worried so much with what a candidates degree was in but that he had received one. In his mind the university experience taught the student not only things that may be pertinent to the specific degree but more importantly it taught them how to learn and how to analyse critically. He also pointed out that beyond the education itself, graduating from a four year program requires a dedication and shows that the graduate can complete something monumental.
Well, I didn't just take advanced geodesy courses, I also took a bunch of survey courses.
I've Used 15% Of What I Learned In Engineering College
I consider that a high percentage.
I've used over 90% of what I learned in surveying college.
Does that make it a tech school?
Hey wait, it was at New Jersey Institute of Technology.
Paul in PA
> Go to Ferris State University. In four years you will have a degree in engineering and surveying that is Abet accredited. I wrote both the FS and FE exams within one year of graduation. Have not gotten the PE yet, because I am to busy surveying. But if work slows, I might.
> Scott PS EIT
Great point Scott. Me, I'm one of those ski bum nerds who went to Mich Tech back in the 70's. Kind of the same program as Ferris these days from what I hear, kind of a surveying engineering degree so you can get double licensed if you choose. Back in my old days it was in the Forestry program, but I think they consolidated with more of an engineering program. Probably a good plan, but who knows.
Best of luck to ya pal. A couple of the grasshoppers who worked for me in Grand Rapids went to Ferris and have since achieved their PLS. For others, MI isn't exactly an "easy" place to get your license. 4 yr degree, plus 4 more years of responsible experience under the supervision of a PLS (party chief or more), which took me about 8 yrs to get before the board let me test. Then it was a full essay type format, not multiple choice like most states. You could have the right answer but needed to say why....
Well when I graduated 44 years ago GPS was not even a tinkle in a surveyor's wildest dreams. But we had learned spherical trig for astronomy to determine latitude longitude and azimuth. We also leart projection, scale factor and grid v plane angles, transformation. So stepping up to the GPS plate was a natural progression.
The other day I attended the release for unmanned drones used for taking photos for extracting 3d models. Photogrammetry, rectification etc flooded back.
I sick of the rubbish written here how it is not necessary to have a degree. As stated by another poster graduation shows you have the "stickability" to succeed, the abilities to learn, think and adapt. Those critiques who have never been to uni and graduated do not know what they have missed.
University is not about making a person an expert measurer and boundary definer as quaintly perceived by a number of degree critiques. University courses cover a wide range of subject material, so it is after graduating that you rightly specialize and become proficient in one of the many emerging fields of surveying. Boundary surveying is but one small part today. Here in Australia if you were starting out on your own today solely as a boundary surveyor you would not survive like we traditionally did.
BTW the best subject I read at uni was philosophy, as a general elective. Every university course should have a minimum of one year as it taught me logical thinking. To think outside the square. To know that if you start with a false premise then you simply can never win an argument. Great tools for the boundary surveyor.
Apologies for the abruptness, but I have survived on my own for 36 years as I have never stopped learning and adapting to the technology that has emerged since the six figure log and trig, T1A,300 foot invar and the 5 chain invar and the facit hand calculator days. The reason is that I had a formal education nearly half a century ago on all the fundamentals which are the root of this surveying tree revolution.
RADU.
> Well when I graduated 44 years ago GPS was not even a tinkle in a surveyor's wildest dreams. But we had learned spherical trig for astronomy to determine latitude longitude and azimuth. We also leart projection, scale factor and grid v plane angles, transformation. So stepping up to the GPS plate was a natural progression.
>
> The other day I attended the release for unmanned drones used for taking photos for extracting 3d models. Photogrammetry, rectification etc flooded back.
>
> I sick of the rubbish written here how it is not necessary to have a degree. As stated by another poster graduation shows you have the "stickability" to succeed, the abilities to learn, think and adapt. Those critiques who have never been to uni and graduated do not know what they have missed.
>
> University is not about making a person an expert measurer and boundary definer as quaintly perceived by a number of degree critiques. University courses cover a wide range of subject material, so it is after graduating that you rightly specialize and become proficient in one of the many emerging fields of surveying. Boundary surveying is but one small part today. Here in Australia if you were starting out on your own today solely as a boundary surveyor you would not survive like we traditionally did.
>
> BTW the best subject I read at uni was philosophy, as a general elective. Every university course should have a minimum of one year as it taught me logical thinking. To think outside the square. To know that if you start with a false premise then you simply can never win an argument. Great tools for the boundary surveyor.
>
> Apologies for the abruptness, but I have survived on my own for 36 years as I have never stopped learning and adapting to the technology that has emerged since the six figure log and trig, T1A,300 foot invar and the 5 chain invar and the facit hand calculator days. The reason is that I had a formal education nearly half a century ago on all the fundamentals which are the root of this surveying tree revolution.
>
> RADU.
:good:
>
> You could have the right answer but needed to say why....
Lucky for me the apprenticeship rule you speak of does not specify that it be post graduation. I worked in surveying for 20 years and then went back to school. Kinda backwards, but thanks to the loophole the state counted my experience. Had my PLS in only 7 months after graduation.
Plus they quit using the essay exam that was graded by a bunch of old surveyor's who did not want anymore competition. Now using a computer based exam that has about a 60% pass rate. It also gives you a pass or fail the second you are done. No more waiting 🙂
On another note, Our Red Wings really blew it last night:-(
Ditto too.
