Toyota / Ford to team up to make Hybrid Trucks/SUVs

Heard Bob Lutz being interviewed for his book Car Guys vs. Bean Counters: The Battle for the Soul of American Business. He claimed that GM had a hybrid concept car in 1968. Ford has at least one hybrid today, the Escape.

Feel free to get one, just also get a generator to keep the batteries charged, that way you can burn gas or diesel in your hybrid instead of coal. Go Green, the grid does not have the ability to replace the BLUs used in transportation today, let alone tomorrow. False dreams and money making scrams never turn out good, we should all be wise to it by now. Electric vehicles were used much in the early days, there was a very good reason they fell by the wayside. A few available for use where they make sense I have no problem with, the continued pushing to do away with fossil fuels with nothing in place that works as well, only delays the creation of an alternate energy system that would work. Fuel Cells?
jud

Ford actually has hybrid versions of Escape, Fusion and Focus, that I know of. They may have others.

In fact, the Fusion hybrid is a great success. http://www.hybridcars.com/vehicle/ford-fusion-hybrid.html

> The Ford Fusion Hybrid wipes the floor with the Toyota Camry Hybrid.
-- Car & Driver

I want a 400HP 4wd electric truck that will go 1000 miles on a single charge or 500 miles pulling a load with a quick charge somehow.

Until then, I'm still using oil.

An electric 4x4 would be awesome. Even an electric 4wheeler would be cool.

We need to be pushing for improvements in energy storage. We have plenty of energy on this earth, we just cannot store it well enough. That is my opinion anyway.

As an example, I have a 500 gallon black water storage tank. It gets so hot in the summer, it will almost burn you. Think of the energy it takes to heat 500 gallons to that temp.! How many gallons of propane would it take to heat 500 gallons? If you could store that energy and use it later......

The spring that feeds the tank only trickles (very cool water), about like a badly leaking faucet. It produces over 200 gallons a day. The average household person uses 80-100 gallons a day. It's all about storage.

I'm clearing and burning tons and tons of buck brush. The piles are 25' in diameter and 12' tall. The energy coming out of those piles is staggering. The coals remain hot, sometimes for over a week. Perhaps the brush is a better storage device for sunlight than we will ever invent?

JRL

> Feel free to get one, just also get a generator to keep the batteries charged, that way you can burn gas or diesel in your hybrid instead of coal.

I think you are misinformed about a lot of things. In their current form, Hybrids don't need to be recharged and you don't draw any power from the grid.

> Go Green, the grid does not have the ability to replace the BLUs used in transportation today, let alone tomorrow. False dreams and money making scrams never turn out good, we should all be wise to it by now.

Again, a Hybrid doesn't need the grid, but if plug-in hybrids become popular, it's not like everyone is going to run out and buy one overnight. The Leaf, from what I understand (which isn't a hybrid, BTW) can be programmed to charge during off-peak hours only. Utilities have said that an influx of cars charging during off-peak hours is something they can handle, and prefer, in that they don't have to ramp down their operations overnight. They say it would make their operation more efficient.

> Electric vehicles were used much in the early days, there was a very good reason they fell by the wayside.

... yeah ... and nothing has changed since "the early days" ... you don't think, perhaps, battery and electric motor technology has improved some since "the early days"?

> A few available for use where they make sense I have no problem with, the continued pushing to do away with fossil fuels with nothing in place that works as well, only delays the creation of an alternate energy system that would work. Fuel Cells?
> jud

Push to do away with fossil fuels??? Huh? A prius get's it's energy from gasoline, and nothing else. They just use a lot less of it to accomplish the same goal.

A friend of mine bought a Fusion hybrid. That car is really sweet. He says he's getting 44 mph around town with it. But one of the problems with them is that they are so quiet they're hard to hear coming.

Hybrid technology has been with us for a while. The main use in transportation is railroad engines. Many of the engines are hybrids-electric motor/diesel engine. I think also that some large ocean liners use similar systems. Another use that I've worked with is pump-storage. I actually had a crew member that was previously an administrator for the Dinorwig facility in Scotland and he explained that hybrid technology to me. It took a while but it finally sank in.

Good driving techniques should not keep the batteries charged. Hard acceleration wastes fuel, hard breaking makes heat and the little recovered in amps probably won't gain you much. Using only a fuel efficient gas engine and not adding the weight of another feel good system and using fuel efficient driving techniques should provide more efficiency than any hybrid could ever do. It is a con game. Use slow acceleration, coast to a stop, instead of making heat with your breaks will do more to save energy than any two system configuration could ever save, especially if you honestly enter into the equation the manufacturing costs in labor and energy. No, the people really want to be fooled so they can feel good, a few are making a killing from all of us because of that. Enough evidence is out there to see the truth if more would only be willing to add it up. Part of the the plan for bankrupting the USA.
jud

> Good driving techniques should not keep the batteries charged. Hard acceleration wastes fuel, hard breaking makes heat and the little recovered in amps probably won't gain you much. Using only a fuel efficient gas engine and not adding the weight of another feel good system and using fuel efficient driving techniques should provide more efficiency than any hybrid could ever do. It is a con game. Use slow acceleration, coast to a stop, instead of making heat with your breaks will do more to save energy than any two system configuration could ever save, especially if you honestly enter into the equation the manufacturing costs in labor and energy. No, the people really want to be fooled so they can feel good, a few are making a killing from all of us because of that. Enough evidence is out there to see the truth if more would only be willing to add it up. Part of the the plan for bankrupting the USA.
> jud

Wait, you think a Hybrid system works by drivers slamming on their brakes to create heat? LOL. You have no clue. The hybrid system recaptures kinetic energy from coasting and slowing to a stop. It has nothing to do with brake heat. In fact, it would be most efficient if you never used your brakes and just rolled to a stop. An internal combustion engine is between 18 and 35% efficient. A hybrid system captures, stores, and reuses some of that 65 to 82% wasted energy. A Prius gets 45-50 miles to a gallon without trying. No slamming on the brakes to get them good and hot required ...

I'm just curious how you think it's "being fooled" if, for example, my wife's old minivan got 16 miles to a gallon, and her new prius gets 45? That's about 3X more fuel efficent? We went from paying ~$90-120/wk in gas, to $30-40. At $4+/gallon, it pretty much makes it's own car payment ...

For me, having a truck that can do that makes business sense. If my competition wants to pay 3X more for their gasoline bills, that's OK with me. I’ll take full advantage of the technology that saves me money.

You don't coast to a stop in today's traffic very long without getting killed, In the country with no traffic you can do better if you are very watchful and careful. Learned to be easy on the throttle and brakes when 16 when hauling livestock when I was told that if I knocked any of them down with jerky driving I would get a licking. Can get away with that in a truck, hauling livestock or pulling a tanker which I have also done, not in a roller skate with wheels, so you seldom are given the opportunity to use the hybrid like it was intended to be used, jerk everything out except for the gas engine and stop carrying around that useless weight and your mileage will take another jump up.
jud

> You don't coast to a stop in today's traffic very long without getting killed, In the country with no traffic you can do better if you are very watchful and careful. Learned to be easy on the throttle and brakes when 16 when hauling livestock when I was told that if I knocked any of them down with jerky driving I would get a licking. Can get away with that in a truck, hauling livestock or pulling a tanker which I have also done, not in a roller skate with wheels, so you seldom are given the opportunity to use the hybrid like it was intended to be used, jerk everything out except for the gas engine and stop carrying around that useless weight and your mileage will take another jump up.
> jud

Dude, just slowing down recycles the kinetic energy. You don't have to coast to a stop or slam on the breaks. Just drive normal. Geez, why is this so hard to understand? We're not all driving chicken trucks, here ... I think the results speak for themselves, since the Hybrids are way ahead of the pack in fuel economy.

But, if you really think that removing the Hybrid system from a Prius will improve the gas millage, you can name another car of similar size and weight that gets better than 50 MPGs?

The Toyota Corolla is slightly smaller and gets 28/34 ... You'd think if your theory was true that the Corolla should be getting 60 or 70 MPG ... right?

> Use slow acceleration, coast to a stop

I sure wish I could convince my wife to do this. She drives (pun intended) me nuts by accelerating hard and then roaring up to stop signs, only to jamming on the brakes in order to stop in time. I've tried many times explaining that these practices waste fuel, to no avail.

As long as they don't use the Ford Twin I-beam front end on anything I'm good with it.

I've been at the Honda dealership listening to the folks complaining about why their new hybrid is not getting the mileage it was advertised at. It really depends on the type of driving you do the most.

My moms 1987 Nissan Stanza station wagon got 48 mpg on trips, no hybrid technology there, just a carburetor. She got a new Nissan Sentra with the same size engine (lighter car) and she could only get 30 mpg with fuel injection. Go figure? I guess the old car was polluting the air too much? Jrl

My subordinate employee has a very light touch.

He has squeezed 15 mpg out of my F250 4WD crew cab work truck with a tall cap (it sticks above the cab).

Very easy acceleration and he says anytime you are using brakes you are wasting energy because you over accelerated and now have to brake. Obviously some braking is needed but a lot can be gained in heavy traffic just by leaving a gap in front to minimize braking.

The issue with hybrids is they have a shorter service life and we have to dispose of the spent batteries which are full of toxic materials.

The materials to make twice as many vehicles and the batteries come from large mining operations that burn diesel.

Therefore I think hybrid vehicles are really a false shade of green.

The simple fact is you can't get something for nothing and it takes a certain amount of energy to move a heavy hunk of steel around.

The real answer is we can't keep insisting on driving everywhere by ourselves in a 3,000 lb vehicle; it isn't sustainable over the long run.

You're right about that. It does depend on how you drive. When the light turns red in front of me, I start coasting. I see people next to me speeding up, and behind me pass, so they can accelorate towards the redlight, just so they can slam on the brakes. I don't floor the gas pedal when the light turns green, and I use the cruise control to keep it a constant speed on the highway. My favorite is the kids the weave in and out of lanes cutting people off left and right, then when you get to the next light, they are waiting maybe 2 cars in front of you. Always makes me laugh.

When I drive my wife's car, I can easily beat the specs (50MPG+) by driving like a grandpa. My wife usually comes in the 41-42MPG range, which is a few notches below the 46MPG rating of our car. She just drives differently.

Yes lately I am taking a much lighter approach to my driving. Most people only look 100' ahead. You hear their big gas guzzeling truck downshift as they accelerate into the red light a half mile down the road. Meanwhile I take my foot off of the gas and coast; a lot of times by the time I get there it is green so I can accelerate (lightly) while still rolling while those guys who charged up to the red light then ground more material off of their brake pads have to accelerate from a complete stop (usually hard).

The other thing is the F250 I drive will climb a 5% grade at 65 but it'll downshift so the engine is turning 4200 rpm which is ridiculous. I figure in these budget times it will be a long time before I get another truck so I better take it easy on this one. I usually climb steep hills slowly just to save wear and tear on the State's truck.

>The real answer is we can't keep insisting on driving everywhere by ourselves in a 3,000 lb vehicle; it isn't sustainable over the long run.

"My grandfather rode a camel, my father rode a camel, I drive a Mercedes, my son drives a Land Rover, his son will drive a Land Rover, but his son will ride a camel."

-Rashid bin Saeed Al Maktoum (Prime Minister of United Arab Emirates and Emir of Dubai)